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Some voters are sick of companies like Amazon paying no corporate tax

nytimes.com

171–175 of 175 posts

Re: Some voters are sick of companies like Amazon paying no corporate tax

#171
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Initially I too thought this was a bad idea, but if you think about it and set the tax rate really low - like a handful of percent, say 1% or 2%, not more than 5% - it might actually work. Because even if the corporate tax rate is 30%, but we only collect it on profit, which ends up being only 5%-10% of revenue. So in actual fact, if the corporation was honest, we're really only collecting 30% of 5% or so, which is a…

Seems like that would lead to massive vertical consolidation. If you have a retailer buying from a distributor buying from manufacturer buying from a raw material producer, the revenue flowing from each to the next would be taxed again and again, but a single company doing everything would only pay once. Is that something you want to encourage? A VAT might make more sense, since you can deduct the VAT you paid to you…

A VAT, GST, or sales tax always affects only the final consumer, where as a revenue tax would dig into every stage whenever goods or services are moved between companies.

There is nothing inherently wrong about taxing the revenue at each stage as material flows between companies. Right now we tax those companies profitability instead, and at a much higher rate. So there is an incentive for companies to minimise profitability in terms of how much tax they have to pay. If instead we tax revenue directly it could simplify things and mean that they could optimise profit to some degree. It could lead to more vertical integration but it would also lead to the dissolution of accounting schemes between companies like the double Dutch Irish sandwich (or whatever it's called). Because every time a company makes revenue it would be taxed in that country.

In general you could think of a revenue tax as more of a land tax for companies. Real-estate owners generally pay government an amount per year which is just because they own that property. So think of a revenue tax as one which is applied to businesses.

Re: Some voters are sick of companies like Amazon paying no corporate tax

#172

The article is reluctant to mention the reason why they got those tax rebates, and focuses on the way people feel about it. This seems like bad journalism. According to CNBC, “Amazon's low tax bill mainly stemmed from the Republican tax cuts of 2017, carryforward losses from years when the company was not profitable, tax credits for massive investments in R&D and stock-based employee compensation.” https://www.cnbc.c…

>and stock-based employee compensation. Do we have any more information on this line item? I'm in a position where over 1/2 of my income is via RSU grants from my employer. If those are deductible from corporate taxes, that seems to make sense since they are treated as regular income to the recipients, just like salaries (other payroll taxes, etc. are another story). I know there are other forms of equity-based compe…

This is a good article on the subject

https://hbr.org/2009/08/expensing-stock-options-the-co

Re: Some voters are sick of companies like Amazon paying no corporate tax

#173
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you do know that this is a well known tax avoidance strategy right? The profits would be later used to offset the losses carried forward by the parent. Are you an accountant/CPA or attorney?

Perhaps you could pencil out this well known tax avoidance strategy (unless you are really talking about time value of money, jurisdictional arbitrage, or some dodgy maneuver that wouldn’t stand up to an audit)

I take it you are neither accountant/CPA nor attorney who regularly deals with these tax matters.

In lieu of penciling you a tax treatise, you may Google “wholly owned subsidiary tax strategies“. While there are no shortage of tax benefits, inevitably one of the elementary examples you find towards the top will be segregation of manufacturing and sales entities. Unfortunately you likely will not find much on more nuanced situations for example Wholly owned IC-Discs or LOB for wholly owned foreign entities (in many instances those situations can result in 0% US withholding and tax rates)

Re: Some voters are sick of companies like Amazon paying no corporate tax

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, my company has to pay 21% VAT. For a dollar in sales we have to add 21% in taxes. But we deduct the VAT paid, so if we had to buy stuff for 95 cents, we'd get back the VAT paid on that, resulting in having to pay taxes only on the difference, being 5 cents x 21%, approx 1 cent. Hence it being called "value added tax". I think this is a better tax than income taxes because it taxes consumption, not labo…

Many companies explicitly pass VAT to the consumer. For example, I have to pay VAT as a line item on the rent for my coworking space. VAT is the reason a MacBook is hundreds of dollars more expensive to buy in Europe than in the US. I’m an American living in UK. I bought a jacket here, wore it home, and then forgot it, so I had my mom send it to be in the UK (where I bought it). She declared its value and so I had to…

I don't like paying taxes either, but we have to fund our government and the services it provides somehow, right?

If you rent a space and buy a Mac for work you can probably get the VAT you paid back, deducting if from the VAT you add to your own invoices.

Income tax and VAT are the biggest taxes here, what I am saying is that income tax is worse because it hurts jobs directly. VAT does distort pricing internationally, as you say. If all countries would have the same it would be better for everyone.

It would be even better if we could tax capital and corporate profits more, but powerful forces work against that.

Of course we can also not sufficiently fund the government and gut it. We'll see in a decennium or two how that works out in the US.

Re: Some voters are sick of companies like Amazon paying no corporate tax

#175
post #38
post #11

Am I to believe Bezos and his investors will simply take the hit of paying taxes, or will that expense get passed to consumers?

Smaller companies pay their taxes and set their prices at a level where they can afford that. If Amazon are forced to compete fairly on efficiency/quality/... rather than on tax avoidance, that's a good thing for customers in the long run (and of course collecting tax to be spent on public services is good for citizens immediately).

That makes sense, thank you.
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