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Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

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Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#171

Post by ipad23 »

jasonkester wrote: post #162
mtberatwork wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're doing that thing I warned you not to do... > The key is to build the business to the point where it replaces your income before you quit your dev job. So your counter argument is for people to build a successful business on their own that will last for the remainder of their careers while working a full time job (and most likely while supporting a family and raising children)? Yes...it's just that simple.

Close. It doesn't need to live forever though. Just long enough for you to build something to replace it. You appear sceptical, but it really isn't hard to do. There are lots of examples here that come up every time anybody asks.

many people just don't want to do anything besides coding. it's the reason there will always be workers and business owners.

I built a business 5 years ago while I was working. The tech for it took me a weekend to complete and I had over a million in annual revenue within 2 years.

Coding became 20% of my job, but I loved the new skills I gained and challenges outside of coding.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#173

Post by ipad23 »

scarface74 wrote: post #168
jasonkester wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close. It doesn't need to live forever though. Just long enough for you to build something to replace it. You appear sceptical, but it really isn't hard to do. There are lots of examples here that come up every time anybody asks.

It’s called “survivorship bias”.

I'm really tired of seeing this posted whenever someone talks about their success. It breeds a loser mentality where people just assume they won't be successful, so they won't even try.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#174

Post by cheerlessbog »

tomduncalf wrote: post #82
jasonkester wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the “Business Stuff” you have to do in addition, but I find it’s not really any more of your day than the normal boring admin stuff of being a rank and file developer. Certainly less than being a manager at a bigco. It also does away with ageism concerns.

I don’t know how it works in the US but in the U.K. becoming a contractor can provide a good half way house between being employed and running your own company. You’re not an employee so no performance reviews or line management and you are responsible for running your own company, but at the same time many contracts will be working with teams of permanent staff for 6 months or more so it’s not like you are off total…

This may be easier in the UK as your healthcare is not tied to your employment.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#175

Post by mooreds »

Nemi wrote: post #155
mooreds wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google (maps, Borg, bigtsble, etc) Amazon (AWS, FBA) Apple (iPhone, iPad, iPod)

I would argue these are the exceptions that prove the rule. They all have demonstrable leaders that made this happen. Xerox is done, as is AT&T, as those leaders are long gone. Sony is another one that lost their leader and their magic. I would argue Apple is on this route now as we are only now seeing the impact of losing Jobs.

Are small companies immune to losing their leader and their way? Or is it just that we don't notice because there are so many small companies?

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#176

Post by noelsusman »

ptero wrote: post #161
wjossey wrote: post #22

I’ve been reviewing a lot of career path documents recently for different engineering orgs, and every one is fairly uniform in that you either progress into management, team leadership, or architecture (or some blend of the three). If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. I’ve been noodling on this for a while, and I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be spe…

> If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. It may be semantics, but I think "stagnating at a pretty high level" may be a pretty good endgame for a smart engineer who does not want to go to either people or technology management. If this means significant autonomy, mentoring role and decent compensation what is wrong with stagnating at this level? This is not for everyone, bit may be…

This is my plan. We'll see how it works out, but my endgame is a technical lead on a relatively small team.

I watched my father get promoted into unhappiness. He didn't realize it until it was too late. For his most recent promotion they had to threaten to fire him to get him to take it.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#177

Post by maxxxxx »

wjossey wrote: post #22

I’ve been reviewing a lot of career path documents recently for different engineering orgs, and every one is fairly uniform in that you either progress into management, team leadership, or architecture (or some blend of the three). If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. I’ve been noodling on this for a while, and I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be spe…

" I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be special projects. Small teams (3 people max) given autonomy and clear objectives (revenue goals, user growth goals, etc). "

I have been thinking about that too. I am pretty experienced and the best use for me would be to get something off the ground quickly to working through a hard problem . I have seen a lot so usually my instincts are pretty good and I am much faster in responding to problems than the less experienced are. I also have the confidence to make decisions and take responsibility without needing approval from multiple parties.

A lot of companies like to talk about being "agile" and "like a startup" but they rarely let engineers stay focused on a problem, leave them alone and let them work through it.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#178

Post by maxxxxx »

ptero wrote: post #161
wjossey wrote: post #22

I’ve been reviewing a lot of career path documents recently for different engineering orgs, and every one is fairly uniform in that you either progress into management, team leadership, or architecture (or some blend of the three). If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. I’ve been noodling on this for a while, and I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be spe…

> If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. It may be semantics, but I think "stagnating at a pretty high level" may be a pretty good endgame for a smart engineer who does not want to go to either people or technology management. If this means significant autonomy, mentoring role and decent compensation what is wrong with stagnating at this level? This is not for everyone, bit may be…

There is nothing wrong with stagnating but in a lot of companies the stagnation level for engineers is pretty low compared to management. You also have to deal with the fact management has decision power so you often get overridden by less qualified people who happen to be in management.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#179

Post by wellreally »

sethammons wrote: post #113
Aeolun wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was my dream as well, until I found out it basically brings you all the responsibilities of management, without any of the rewards.

Which rewards? If it is salary, at least for us (I work with the author of the referenced article), we strive to keep those levels the same on the technical and managerial track.

How many engineers vs managers are there in your company at that level and at the levels above it?

It's rare to see a big tech company with as many engineers as managers at the Director compensation level, for example.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#180

Post by cortesoft »

ipad23 wrote: post #173
scarface74 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called “survivorship bias”.

I'm really tired of seeing this posted whenever someone talks about their success. It breeds a loser mentality where people just assume they won't be successful, so they won't even try.

So we should never talk about the possibility of failure? I think breeding a naive mentality is as bad if not worse than breeding a loser mentality.
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