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Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#171

Post by kbenson »

trickstra wrote: post #77
sagarm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical of autonomy in three years myself, but embedded engineers are hardly a convincing authority on the subject.

Were you also skeptical about landing orbital rockets 5 years ago?

I actually think landing an orbital rocket is probably easier by an order of magnitude, possibly even two.

Rocket science is a matter of applied physics, with materials science thrown in, and a bit of very well understood and straightforward software engineering.

Autonomous driving is a matter of getting AI models functioning to a well enough degree. My understanding of how this is done is you try to find more and better data to throw at it and tweak the models to hopefully make it learn better until the point it seems to pass your tests, which are whatever you've been able to come up with that you can think to test.

It's like trying to throw a pitch over home plate, but in one case you have a pitching machine you can aim and dial in the speed, and in the other you have a living pitcher. Only that living pitcher is an Orangutan you're trying to train.

One of those is a lot more art than science, and as such, getting well understood and reproducible outcomes that don't fall apart at a fundamental level when you add one more variable is harder.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#172

Post by linuxftw »

pyify wrote: post #168
linuxftw wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it was an outright lie, an effort to solicit deposits and lure people into a bait-and-switch of higher priced models. All evidence to date suggests I'm right. Of course, they're never going to come out and say 'we fooled you' but I don't know what level of evidence people need before they reach the conclusion for themselves.

"All evidence to date suggests I'm right". Can you give us some examples of all of this evidence?

The evidence that 3 years later, no base models have actually been delivered, those that were finally able to order them were bait and switched into upgrading or face even longer delivery timelines?

When you see a $35000 brand new Tesla actually for sale, please let the rest of the world know. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27120534/tesla-model-3-li...

Unless you have some other definition of bait and switch.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#173

Post by ricardobeat »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #57
Twirrim wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So more of the mostly deluded, same old, same old, Elon hype. There's so many indicators that FSD is ages away from being safe, and so many stories of Tesla's just randomly steering in towards barriers and needing quick action from their drivers, even as recent as last month.

> even as recent as last month. Here's a video from a few days ago of Tesla's Autopilot seemingly getting confused by a line made out of dirt, veering off-road and crashing[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&t=51

That's not very indictive of Tesla. The driver ignored multiple signs posted with a 25mph limit, yellow 'tight curve ahead' signs and all, with plenty of time to spare.

Also was there a mention of the car following the dirt line? It seems to me it loses traction way before that, and most likely disengages.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#174

Post by Someone »

njarboe wrote: post #76
_red wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet speak to any experienced embedded developer who actually thinks "full autonomy" is remotely possible in the near/mid term. The suggestions that it is possible, seems to come mainly from junior developers and snake-oil salesman. We don't even have "full autonomous" trains, planes, or trucks yet.

Would an auto-car that crashed at a rate 1/10th of humans be a successful "full autonomous" vehicle? You could save 30000 lives a year in the US by deploying such vehicles and probably more due to knock-on effects. But that would be about 10 auto-car deaths/per day. No way that works with the current media. Unfortunately, it seems many people are not going to accept auto-cars with less than airplane like safety level…

Level 5 isn’t only about safety, but also about universality.

At level 5, one expects a self-driving car to ride gravel roads, park in highly temporary parking spots, spot police officers and follow their orders, drive short distances on non-roads (e.g. to drive around a car pile-up), etc.

A car that recognizes those cases, stops, and tells it’s passenger “please help me out for a few meters” would be a fantastic accomplishment and very, very successful, but wouldn’t qualify as level 5 autonomous.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#175

Post by metalliqaz »

Domenic_S wrote: post #90
metalliqaz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plug-in mod for Toyota Prius?

Why the mod? It exists from the factory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Plug-in_Hybrid

Yeah, sorry, I was thinking about one of the old ones because the OP wanted "minimized computers".

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#176

Post by stetrain »

mereel wrote: post #24
jak92 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. Will they be selling the standard then ? The quote and headline don't seem to match. And no, I haven't read the link. edit: I did read the link and I still don't understand.

I thought they were saying they're going to stop selling the current standard one, and the new "standard" will be the software limited plus, and that it will only be available at a store and not online.

As far as I know they never delivered any of the Standard Range cars with cloth seats, and this sound like they don't plan to for the forseeable future.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#178

Post by Someone »

kbenson wrote: post #171
trickstra wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you also skeptical about landing orbital rockets 5 years ago?

I actually think landing an orbital rocket is probably easier by an order of magnitude, possibly even two. Rocket science is a matter of applied physics, with materials science thrown in, and a bit of very well understood and straightforward software engineering. Autonomous driving is a matter of getting AI models functioning to a well enough degree. My understanding of how this is done is you try to find more and be…

Also, SpaceX’s landings are amazing, but looking at the numbers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_He...): ”The rocket's first-stage boosters have been recovered in 35 of 42 landing attempts (83%).”

If Tesla’s cars were as good in parking as that, one in six attempts to park a car would lead to a fender-bender or worse.

Yes, that isn’t a valid comparison, but it does show that we accept way higher failure rates for rockets than we do for cars (aside: that also is the reason I don’t see space tourism become popular soon. If, say, the 20th or 30th millionaire who books a flight dies, the market will dry up rapidly)

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#179

Post by village-idiot »

Someone1234 wrote: post #56
twoodfin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone want to lay odds on these cars ending up in a “certified pre-owned” program instead? This seems like a scheme to both boost future new car sales and effectively “sell” the same car twice.

Unless they completely replaced the cells in the battery packs, I'd pass on a pre-owned EV. Even modern battery packs degrade year on year.

Battery degradation is largely a matter of use + thermal management. Since cars have thermal control systems installed (unlike your phone), you should expect a car battery to last a lot longer than a cell phone does.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#180

Post by village-idiot »

leesec wrote: post #150
minikites wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I really don't get it. Tesla has over-promised and under-delivered for years while maintaining a tremendous amount of hubris throughout.

So people want the whole company to go bankrupt and for 50k people to lose their jobs and we have no one leading the charge towards electric vehicles? The Internet is a weird and ridiculous place.

You’re making up the motivations of other people. This is a very bad habit to get into.
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