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I’m only making business card sized games now

frankforce.com

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Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#171
post #66
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some games do have a dark side, crafted by the creators to hook into the psyche of the players. I talked to a developer of a popular free-to-play game, and he told me of many of the psychological hooks they use in their game. Exploitation of hoarding behavior, community fame for specific players, random occurrences that are carefully scripted, etc. Nowadays it's hard to find games free of ulterior motives. Ye…

Videogames have always had "money mixed in", profitable videogame studios are as old as videogames themselves, and your glasses are just rose tinted. I'm not even sure what kind of "old" game you're picturing that you think didn't have "money mixed in" - tetris? pong? goldeneye?

Ha, I was thinking historically like solitaire or chess or bridge or the like.

The real exception is gambling games.

And I did think along the same lines (in a very minor way) with arcade games. Pinball - where skill let you prolong a game gave way to video games (like pacman or tetris you mentioned), which quickly got too hard to keep going. And it went further when games like gauntlet kept you feeding quarters in a pay to play way.

But at that time, we got atari and nintendo and so forth. Pay once, play for a long time. Kids grew up with this, and parents worried about the cost of a cartridge.

But the current crop of games is free, yet blatantly money oriented. Plants vs Zombies pre-EA vs post-EA comes to mind. Add grinding and then pay to not grind.

Yes, a little rose colored. But in vegas you can actually register as a compulsive gambler and the casinos will not serve you.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#172
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah! I think I’ve spent about 500 hours in Rimworld and haven’t come close to the endgame. I’ve never gotten any of the spaceship parts or anything like that.

I've played Rimworld since the Kickstarter beta. Back in the old days, it was possible to finish the space ship over the weekend. I guess the game has also crept much larger and added more filler.

I played it quite early too (I don't remember if I kickstarted , it or bought it after, but it was long before it was on Steam). Yes, it has become much larger, but its not filler, in my opinion, because the additional content adds additional depth and nuance to the game, characters and the story that unfolds. Much of it can also be ignored, if you so wish, because its based around content that you can construct (eg if you want to ignore the alcohol system, then don't grow hops and brew beer). I suppose you could call that filler, but it exists because if you do want to make use of it, its systems integrate with the games other systems and create interesting stories as it gives the characters more depth.

You're probably right though, I suppose it also made the game much harder to "complete" compared to the early days.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#173
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> little about how not to design a competitive game I’d love to hear more about this, although I guess it’s a bit off topic... I played LoL for a while, but never too obsessively or heavily. It was mainly an activity to share with some coworkers so I suppose, like you say, it wasn’t so much about the game itself. I certainly didn’t play it competitively, so maybe that’s why I don’t see it as bad as you make it sound.…

>I’d love to hear more about this, although I guess it’s a bit off topic... I'm not sure HN is the place to discuss such things, and I'm not sure even that interesting – the major gripes are mostly obvious, but fundamental; eg reliance on champion-global external systems like summoner spells, runes and whatever they call their current system, which all make it extremely difficult to balance things locally. They've be…

Thanks for your reply!

> the major gripes are

Ah, yes, I agree with that at all. You can feel how hard the balancing is from how they kept changing the existing characters, basically, trial-and-error balancing.

> leading to the mess of DaS 2/3

DaS 2 is a good game, if taken on its own merit. Its just that compared to DaS 1, it was a step backwards (certainly in terms of world and level design). DaS 3 I really like. It has a lot of missed opportunities in terms of the world and the world is less interesting because of it (I also largely feel that being able to bonfire teleport from the start is to blame -- in the first one, no teleport, connected level design and scattered merchants meant you had to learn the level layout because you would travel through it a lot), but overall, its a lot more refined than the earlier games in terms of mechanics and controls and the game itself was pretty good. At least, I don't call it a mess. I do like DaS 1 and BB more (maybe even DeS too), but I don't dislike it at all. I do wish for an Armoured Core game though (and Tenchu, although Sekiro scratches that itch for now).

I don't fully agree that the only real progress is in graphics. Yes, there are many uninspired games out now, but there is plenty of progress being made, in my opinion, outside of graphics, certainly in things like branching storylines and just in general games are mechanically more refined (camera and controls of 3D games are now a solved thing, back in the early days of 3D, both were terrible) and certainly if you look beyond the AAA games, there's a lot of creativity (story, gameplay mechanics). But even the shiney graphically fancy 3D games like God of War managed to pull together an experience that is more than just graphics. However, I do agree that many less-inspired AAA titles focus on visuals at the expense of everything else still, I just think there are enough alternative options that I can ignore those games without missing anything and still having more games to play than I have time for.

> it's difficult to find games where player interaction is even a base concept of its design, and thats the primary thing games introduce as a medium!

Agreed, too many games really do suck at this and I agree that this is where games could (eventually will, IMHO) shine compared to other types of entertainment, but they're certainly not there yet.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>developers are constantly taken advantage of, made to crunch for no pay, mass layoffs, etc. Lives have been ruined, and for what? So you could watch your horse poop or play dominoes in an open world game? Hard to feel too bad about people working on leisure products. I'm sure if you swapped out Golf/NASCAR, people here would be less sympathetic.

I've watched lives literally be ruined by this industry. Why is it hard to feel bad for them just because they were doing what they loved and got shit on?

That sounds like the person's own problem.

If they can't keep work-life creep, they don't understand their own value.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#175
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wasted a large chunk of my life on Counterstrike, Arma 3, DayZ Mod, PUBG, and countless console games. _Thousands_ of hours in total. For me, games were more than an escape or simply a way to unwind. For me, they were a well-hidden addiction. They were an obstacle to reaching my potential. I can't see myself going back to games again and still being as happy as I am now. Substitute "football" or "drinking with fr…

Background: I have been playing video games for 25 odd years now. It has highly reduced, I revert to a bunch of youtube let's plays now. - Equating games to watching football is disingenuous at best. Games tire you out mentally. I liked games because it gave me a thousand things to track at once and optimize (big fan of cataclysm DDA/Aurora/factorio/rimworld). But that came at a cost - am a zombie at the end of the s…

> Equating games to watching football is disingenuous at best. Games tire you out mentally.

I'd say such blanket statement is disingenuous as well. I can understand that playing complex games (like the ones you mentioned) can be mentally draining, but I don't believe a simple shooter or racing game would have the same effect.

And the same is true for watching videos - it all depends on the content you play/watch. If I'd be watching a video of someone teaching quantum physics, then I'm sure I'd also find myself mentally drained afterwards, even more so.

> equating videogames to outdoor activities is again disingenuous

Well, they are obviously different, not only because of the social component (which, as you wrote, is deeper in team sports) or health (but the balance is still shifting due to VR). They are also different because games train the mind, while sports do not.

> IMO Video games are essentially alcohol without the liver-effects. Yeah it's a lot of fun in moderation if you are in control (OR if it doesn't pull you in like it does to addictive personalities) but they can pull you down a rabbit hole too deep to climb out of.

Pretty much anything is "esentially alcohol without the liver-effects", if consumed without moderation. An adult person should know their own limits and be able to stop an activity, before it pulls them in, regardless of the type of activity.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#176
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played Rimworld since the Kickstarter beta. Back in the old days, it was possible to finish the space ship over the weekend. I guess the game has also crept much larger and added more filler.

I played it quite early too (I don't remember if I kickstarted , it or bought it after, but it was long before it was on Steam). Yes, it has become much larger, but its not filler , in my opinion, because the additional content adds additional depth and nuance to the game, characters and the story that unfolds. Much of it can also be ignored, if you so wish, because its based around content that you can construct (eg…

Rimworld tries its best to be a drama generator, but unfortunately doesn't do a good job at it. A lot of the additions for the drama side added little actual "depth" and more on "breadth". For example, factions, family relationships, and cleanliness are more tedious than fun. You don't really go "OMG, that's hilarious", you go "Oh come on why'd you have to kill your daughter?"

I think is the big problem with many AAA games these days is that breadth (more unnecessary features) is a lot easier than adding depth.

Compare with Dwarf Fortress, where you can make a mermaid bone farming industry, reservoirs, magma powered river thawing system, waterfall dining rooms, or a magma powered waste disposal system.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#177
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celeste was incredible. Can't wait for the free DLC! Have you played A Hat in Time yet?

I was excited for A Hat in Time and backed it on Kickstarter, but it felt kind of weirdly unpolished to me. I got up to the third world. I generally love 3D platformers too.

I couldn't put it down. I think they unnecessarily skimped on things like animation frames, the amount of badges, maybe one more level... but it still came across as an earnest effort by 7 people working remotely on a budget.

It had a fraction of the budget and development man hours of Yooka-Laylee and yet came out better in pretty much every conceivable way. The controls may not be as tight as Celeste's but it's the best 3D platformer I've played in years.

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