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E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

nytimes.com

171–180 of 365 posts

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#171
post #167
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 777 is the second-safest aircraft in the world, next to the Airbus A340. The 787 is on track to demonstrate a similar safety record (in terms of fatal incidents). So overall, they seem to be quite good.

FWIW, the 787 entire fleet was grounded by the FAA in 2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_...

Not uncommon for a brand new aircraft. They addressed that issue fairly quickly.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#172
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what i was told (it was something like "they have 2 flight computers, and 1 AoA sensor hooked up to each"). The reddit thread linked from elsewhere says the same thing. The preliminary report on the Lion air crash ( http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviation/baru/pre/2018/20... ) says they replaced and tested the AoA sensor 2 days prior. They repeatedly refer to the AoA sensor using only singular nouns every…

Some acquaintance of mine told me – which I really can't believe given the seriousness of aviation security – that there is in fact just one sensor. If true than that's preposterous.

There are definitely at least 2. You can see them :)

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#173
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what i was told (it was something like "they have 2 flight computers, and 1 AoA sensor hooked up to each"). The reddit thread linked from elsewhere says the same thing. The preliminary report on the Lion air crash ( http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviation/baru/pre/2018/20... ) says they replaced and tested the AoA sensor 2 days prior. They repeatedly refer to the AoA sensor using only singular nouns every…

From photos, there is (at least) one on each side. https://s3media.freemalaysiatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/201... https://static.businessinsider.com/image/5be287c7b73c2846bb4...

Yeah, this would line up with "1 sensor for each flight computer".

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely a mischaracterization of what the airlines do. Anyone that has been in a cockpit of a plane knows that you fly by checklists. There's a checklist procedure for almost any scenario they will run into (of course not every). This exact issue was seen by other airlines and the pilots followed the checklist procedures to safely regain control of the plane as expected. In theory, these checklists are opti…

The problem is information overload to pilots. And the pipeline how commercial pilots are trained also changed. 50 years ago a lot of pilots were having military backgrounds and training. So they were having more experience with shit going down the drain situations.

50 years ago they also crashed about 100 times as often as today.

(Air Traffic increased ten-fold since 1970, while fatalities went from 3,500 pa to a few hundred)

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#176
post #5

Does anyone actually know or suspect what's wrong with these planes? Hardware issue? Software issue?

The engines are larger than previous models and had to be moved forward, which causes it to (potentially) stall, so they implemented an anti-stalling mechanism called MCAS which relies on a particular sensor, which can malfunction potentially. They also didn't inform pilots that this system even existed which means they have trouble diagnosing the problem and will potentially only make it worse by trying other things…

Minor nitpick. It's not that the engines directly cause stalls(EDIT: of course if you pitch up too much you will stall at some point). Is that they can cause some unintended lift in some flight configurations. So MCAS is supposed to pitch down (by trimming) to keep the attitude under control

Boeing's main argument is that the procedure for dealing with runaway trim is completely unchanged compared to other planes, so this shouldn't require any additional training.

I understand their reasoning, but it seems odd to not even inform that there was a change, so that this would be more on top of the pilots minds. It's even worse that the system engages as soon as flaps are retracted. Since 737's usually take off with at least some minimum flaps, and retract them soon after take-off once enough airspeed has been attained (but while the plane is still at low altitude), this is quite dangerous. Pilot workload is high at this stage and there is limited altitude to recover.

That said, since this issue is on top of everyone's minds, and US carriers have added the optional safety indicators, we are unlikely to see a crash any time soon. Pilots will be jumping to the override switches at any sign of trouble.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very succint explanation of what's happening here (in the Lion Air case, anyway). Not sure why you're being downvoted - perhaps the claim that this is a "complex problem".

HN is slowly walking towards facebook culture. People up/down vote things they like or dislike, with the goal of disappearing opinions with which they even mildly disagree. Valid points and thoughtful discussion are increasingly unwelcome. Lol. Thanks for the downvote all below. Thanks for proving my point about the change of behavior.

Facebook doesn’t even have a downvote option.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#178
post #103

American and Southwest Airlines are still flying the Max 8/9, and are refusing refunds (Southwest/American) and charging change fees (American) for customers concerned for their safety. I don't understand this logic. They are essentially risking their entire company over the safety of this plane. If something happens now they'll be driven to bankruptcy at record speed.

>If something happens now they'll be driven to bankruptcy at record speed.

I hate to say it, but given the track record for appalling incidents happening with airlines in the US, I'll buy that dip.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All in the name of band aid environmental pandering.

Try the fact that the fuel efficiency saves the airline lots of $$$ on fuel, but yet they haven't reduced fares any. Go figure.

Since airlines have an oligopoly, fares are not based on the cost to the airline but on the price on the supply and demand curve that yields maximum profit. In other words, the maximum price that enough people are willing to pay. If there were more competition in the market the price would be closer to the airline's actual cost.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All in the name of band aid environmental pandering.

Try the fact that the fuel efficiency saves the airline lots of $$$ on fuel, but yet they haven't reduced fares any. Go figure.

Haven’t they? Domestic and long-haul flights seem much cheaper to me than ever.
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