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Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

krebsonsecurity.com

171–180 of 206 posts

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So every OpenID provider has issued millions of dollars in tokens? No, of course not. All the tokens allow is offline generation of secrets. But if you don't need offline generation, then you don't need expensive tokens. I specifically call this out in my linked response; I don't know why you're still stuck on it. Also, soft tokens are a thing and are basically free to generate. I've got several loaded on my phone ri…

> All the tokens allow is offline generation of secrets. Which negates the whole benefit of having short lived secrets, which was the whole crux of why you were suggesting it. > Also, soft tokens are a thing and are basically free to generate. So now instead of buying every citizen in the US a token we're buying every citizen a smartphone or legally requiring them to have one? Seems problematic. > Also also, printing…

I'm suggesting a system where you prove that you know a secret by exchanging a token. You're proposing a system where you prove you know a secret by telling everyone who asks you for it and hope they forget it later. (And somehow think that this is a workable long-term system that resolves the problems of the values we have now which work exactly the same way...)

There's nothing about the former system that requires the things you are stuck on. (And I honestly think you're just being stubborn for some reason, because I'm pretty sure you understand the idea I'm conveying.) You could do it over the phone using a touch-tone system. You could do it through a website. You could do it with an app. You could do it with a hard or soft token. You could do it with a smartcard. The only requirement is that you are capable of telling your secret to the central authority in exchange for a token, in a way that it is very difficult for others to observe. Or, alternatively, to have come to an agreement about how to generate such tokens offline.

But the important part is that in the system I'm talking about, you get a secret value from a central authority. And then you don't tell anyone that secret except that same central authority. Everyone else sees temporary values that are useless if saved -- no pinky promises and laws required.

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#172
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some KBA questions don't show up on your credit report, that being said, they can still be guessed with some certainty if you know the person. Some examples either me or my husband have gotten: -What month was [person] born? [person] was my mom and one option was "I don't know [person]." Luckily they didn't ask the date, because I don't know that, but I do know the month. -Which of the following people are/were you a…

I once had a nightmare set of one where I was setting things up over the phone and had to do KBAs, and asked me who held my Auto Loan. A. Who has my loan has changed since I got it originally. B. The options they gave were (Names changed) Wachovia, Ally Bank, Ally Bank Inc, Ally Bank of New York, where the original lender was Wachovia, and I know it got sold to Ally at some point. I literally have no way to know whic…

I had something like this happen to me while getting a phone plan. I have great credit, and was working for a well known silicon valley tech company with great pay, but because I couldn't remember the exact month I started a job over 25 years ago, I could only get a prepay plan. It was almost amusing.

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the tokens allow is offline generation of secrets. Which negates the whole benefit of having short lived secrets, which was the whole crux of why you were suggesting it. > Also, soft tokens are a thing and are basically free to generate. So now instead of buying every citizen in the US a token we're buying every citizen a smartphone or legally requiring them to have one? Seems problematic. > Also also, printing…

I'm suggesting a system where you prove that you know a secret by exchanging a token. You're proposing a system where you prove you know a secret by telling everyone who asks you for it and hope they forget it later . (And somehow think that this is a workable long-term system that resolves the problems of the values we have now which work exactly the same way ...) There's nothing about the former system that require…

> And I honestly think you're just being stubborn for some reason, because I'm pretty sure you understand the idea I'm conveying.

Indeed I do, it is logistically absurd. I'm talking about replacing one piece of cardboard with a different, more secure, piece of cardboard that resolves actual problems we have today. You're talking about smartphones, tokens, calling in, and a million other complex workarounds all in the name of hypothetical security.

I'd love to see you try to explain your system to an elderly or disabled person. I can explain mine: "Instead of giving them your SSN card, give them this card instead." Done. One sentence. That's literally all they have to know.

Plus your scheme has a huge hole. The second you moved away from physical tokens (which you now seem to acknowledge is unaffordable) to smartphones and now regular phones, you need a way to authenticate who you are. Which means you'll be giving people credentials, which can then be lost, stolen, or requested from vendors creating exactly the same issues we started with.

In other words you've managed to create an expensive logistical nightmare that the general public will hate all in the name of hypothetical security benefits that won't even work in practice. Neat.

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH it’s not the banks fault. Our governments stance on taxes, terrorism and drugs has caused this. Due to the need to verify citizenship, verify that you aren’t a terrorist and verify that you are a drug lord laundering money the banks are forced to jump through all of these hoops to give you an account.

> the need to verify citizenship, verify that you aren’t a terrorist and verify that you are a drug lord laundering money One day these requirements are going to get out of hand. :D

Heh. I’m not saying they are or aren’t out of control. My point is that when the government creates all of the requirements, and the onus is on the banks to verify it all. At risk of penalties from the government. Then you get these kind of stories. People see it as overkill. The banks see it as CYA.

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is mitigated by allowing the key to be rotated freely. The shortcomings over the token based approach are outweighed by being more practical to implement. If the issuing of a new key was an annual process, or even tied to something like drivers license/state id renewal, it would still be worlds better than what we have today.

If rotation is the secret sauce, then the best strategy is to rotate after every use. In which case, why not just build that into the system: 1. Client holds key. 2. Client exchanges key with central agency for token. Token expires after a short time period, making long-term storage and leaks useless. 3. Client gives token to company. 4. Company validates token with central agency. And now we've reinvented OpenID. An…

I agree that the client should generate a token and provide that to the company.

Bonus points: have tokens issued in XXX-XX-XXXX format so that existing systems don’t have to change anything- it’s still a SSN of sorts, just one time use.

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suggesting a system where you prove that you know a secret by exchanging a token. You're proposing a system where you prove you know a secret by telling everyone who asks you for it and hope they forget it later . (And somehow think that this is a workable long-term system that resolves the problems of the values we have now which work exactly the same way ...) There's nothing about the former system that require…

> And I honestly think you're just being stubborn for some reason, because I'm pretty sure you understand the idea I'm conveying. Indeed I do, it is logistically absurd. I'm talking about replacing one piece of cardboard with a different, more secure, piece of cardboard that resolves actual problems we have today. You're talking about smartphones, tokens, calling in, and a million other complex workarounds all in the…

> Indeed I do, it is logistically absurd. I'm talking about replacing one piece of cardboard with a different, more secure, piece of cardboard that resolves actual problems we have today. You're talking about smartphones, tokens, calling in, and a million other complex workarounds all in the name of hypothetical security.

And you're talking about zero improvement in security stance. You could literally implement your idea by just making it illegal to store SSNs, because that's the only salient point where you've improved over current state.

> I'd love to see you try to explain your system to an elderly or disabled person. I can explain mine: "Instead of giving them your SSN card, give them this card instead." Done. One sentence. That's literally all they have to know.

Print card with secret. Give them card. Card has phone number on it. Call the number. It asks for what's on the card. You enter it. You get another number. Give that to the person asking.

Also print on the card to not give the card or the number on it to anyone.

> Plus your scheme has a huge hole. The second you moved away from physical tokens (which you now seem to acknowledge is unaffordable) to smartphones and now regular phones, you need a way to authenticate who you are. Which means you'll be giving people credentials, which can then be lost, stolen, or requested from vendors creating exactly the same issues we started with.

Physical tokens are a "something you have". So is a piece of cardboard. If there's no need to authenticate a hardware token, there's also no need to authenticate a number on a piece of cardboard. And there's no reduction in security stance by doing so.

Also, I make no acknowledgement of the in-/affordability of tokens. Rather, I assert that you can simultaneously support multi-modal methods of exchanging a secret for a token.

> In other words you've managed to create an expensive logistical nightmare that the general public will hate all in the name of hypothetical security benefits that won't even work in practice. Neat.

Really? My proposal is literally the same mechanism by which OpenID and web tokens work... And I'm done because I don't know how to work with someone who's idea of a good security posture is give away secrets to people who ask for them.

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re exactly right. It’s the same reason we’re required to sign checks then the bank promptly ignores the signatures. It’s cheaper to handle the fraud than check the signatures, but it makes us feel good to do it anyways.

I wish - a few years ago I was trying to pay for rent with a cheque and it bounced. I ended up sending another cheque, having that one get rejected, go into the bank and give them a new signature sample, and then have the next cheque be rejected as well due to the signature. Apparently my bank checks cheques.

I never understood the deal with signatures. Most signatures can be faked if analyzed by an amateur (every business). Sure there are experts who will spot fakes but how many of them are employed where signatures are verified?

I can tell you that I’ve faked a signature in harmless situations a number of times and nobody was the wiser.

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#179
post #104
post #92

Equifax has the unique ability to collect the most private information available, even when they have never or will never interact with that person. I think the entire credit system needs to be changed. If credit bureau's can't be responsible then citizens should get a choice in the matter. These companies have us by the balls and we have no recourse. It's a monopoly complete with price fixing and everything, except…

I'm normally not a fan of congressional hearings where everyone is trying to grandstand, but this one was particularly good. The congresswoman asked the Equifax CEO to provide his birthday and social security number publicly for the record. He of course refused and when asked why, he said because that is sensitive information. All the while, Equifax attorneys are arguing in court that there is no harm in leaking priv…

[deleted]

Re: Myequifax.com Bypasses Credit Freeze Pin

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks like Ally Bank. --BUT, it isn't, per the reply below. It's Discover, though Ally asked me the same zodiac question in what looked like the same font.-- They won't open a joint savings account for my wife and I because my wife doesn't have a phone bill in her own name "for verification." (We've been on the same Southwestern Bell/Cingular/AT&T, recently T-Mobile, family plan for the past, oh, fifteen years,…

TBH it’s not the banks fault. Our governments stance on taxes, terrorism and drugs has caused this. Due to the need to verify citizenship, verify that you aren’t a terrorist and verify that you are a drug lord laundering money the banks are forced to jump through all of these hoops to give you an account.

I mean, I get that but why is it not a concern when I want to borrow money? Or, even more relevant, when my wife wants to borrow money? She has multiple credit cards with tens of thousands of dollars in borrowing power in her own name and has had and paid off two loans, all while not having a telephone bill in her own name or even being on the deeds to the properties we've lived in together.

I see it less as CYA and more as "we can make money off of you so the requirements are relaxed because we're making money"--that is, lending money that she'll presumably pay interest to borrow--versus "oh shit you want to put $1,000 in an account and our bank pay you better do the fifteenth degree."

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