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America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

nytimes.com

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Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#171

Post by throwaway-1283 »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

- He had received an offer at a start-up, and he would have loved to take it, but it paid half as much, and he felt locked into a lifestyle that made this pay cut impossible. “My wife laughed when I told her about it,” he said. Sounds like a good wife to me, and this "pay cut" is making 500k-600k instead of 1.2 million, what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't…

Take home pay in NYC on a $500k salary is ~285k/year or $23.75k/month. If you are supporting a family, then rent + living expenses + tuition + retirement + college savings etc will eat most of that easily.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#172

Post by Spooky23 »

madrox wrote: post #131
QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

I’ve thought about this...especially among the very wealthy. Why continue to be a high pressure CEO when you basically never have to work again? My hypothesis is that most very high paying roles are incentive-based, and incentives can be addicting: meet a goal, get a million dollar dopamine hit. I don’t think these people hate their jobs as much as they might say they do.

It's more than that. People need purpose.

That's why things like UBI are a pipe-dream. Any Fortune-500 executive could live a life of leisure with 2-3 years of planning. They tend to not make that choice.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#173

Post by compiler-guy »

jedberg wrote: post #135
ip26 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually dug ditches for a few weeks? It's a popular rhetorical device but I wonder how many engineers have actually done stints of hard labor.

I used to dig ditches on weekends as a way of relaxing. It's not bad when you get to do it on your own time. But yeah, I'd probably not appreciate doing it for eight hours a day five days a week. I'd still do it for a million a year though.

I did it 10 hours a day, four days a week when I had just graduated from high school. Extremely good money for the time, but you would have to pay me a lot more than a million now.

Brutal and back breaking. I couldn't get enough to eat, my body was always sore and tired.

I would do it if I had to, I suppose, but even though my cushy desk job coding pays a lot less--a very much lot less--than a million a year, I would take it every time.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#174

Post by starpilot »

QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

Many in finance do this, working like dogs until they reach their "number" they need to retire. Or, some take pride in their work and would do it for free. Creating and leading a company can be making history. I don't think it's clear cut as to whether enjoying life versus working hard to produce (and taking pride in this) is a better way to live.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#175

Post by Spooky23 »

ip26 wrote: post #111
QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

Have you actually dug ditches for a few weeks? It's a popular rhetorical device but I wonder how many engineers have actually done stints of hard labor.

I worked on a farm in high school. Ditch digging was one of many manual tasks.

It was a much more creative & rewarding job in many respects.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#176

Post by kartan »

Murdoch wrote: post #17

The rich are depressed, the middle-class is shrinking and fearful, the poor are hopeless. I'm gonna take a leap here and say maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning. I found it interesting that a person in the article who made $1.2M a year was still depressed in thinking they were wasting their lives and it was all meaningless. I ask myself, does this person have children? a famil…

> Religion instills this virtue and gives framework of how our actions on earth and our ability to reason and create is an imitation of "god" aka creation of existence.

Isn't USA more religious than other more happy countries? Is not possible that actually religion and other external expectations are making Americans miserable?

If any, there is a correlation between religious countries and unhappiness.

Can you elaborate more on why do you think that religion is the solution and not the real problem?

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#177

Post by hndamien »

nimonian wrote: post #136
Murdoch wrote: post #17

The rich are depressed, the middle-class is shrinking and fearful, the poor are hopeless. I'm gonna take a leap here and say maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning. I found it interesting that a person in the article who made $1.2M a year was still depressed in thinking they were wasting their lives and it was all meaningless. I ask myself, does this person have children? a famil…

> maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning I can't just accept dogma because I'm miserable. I can't just say 2+2=5 even if it would make me feel better. Religion isn't something you can just pick up like pilates. If life is inherently without meaning or direction, I'd rather go with that and be true to myself than refract the universe through some doctrine I understand to be false.…

Actually, you can. There is a no dogma religion that exists for this reason (among others) because the value of religion and community of like minded individuals is recognised. However, the danger of religion is also a central tenet. Check out Yoism if you are actually interested.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#178

Post by nimonian »

kough wrote: post #145
nimonian wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning I can't just accept dogma because I'm miserable. I can't just say 2+2=5 even if it would make me feel better. Religion isn't something you can just pick up like pilates. If life is inherently without meaning or direction, I'd rather go with that and be true to myself than refract the universe through some doctrine I understand to be false.…

Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion? Organized Christianity is just one flavor.

Maybe I jumped the gun there and got a bit sidelined by semantics. In my mind, theism is a necessary but not sufficient condition for religion. Ritual, on the other hand, intersects with religion and irreligion (again, in my mind). I saw another comment speaking about 'atheistic religion' which to me is an oxymoron. I now think the word religion is overloaded.

Didn't mean any offence to anyone - I have an issue with the idea of palliative doublethink, not religion, theistic or otherwise.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#179

Post by seveneightn9ne »

minikites wrote: post #32
dangwu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about living on 500k vs 1 million. It’s about much, much earlier retirement.

I don't understand the mindset of burning yourself out in middle age so you can "enjoy the world" when you're much more likely to be frail and have serious health problems that prevent you from participating in many activities.

If you make 1.2 million a year you could literally retire after 1-2 years and live comfortably (on ~40k) for the rest of your life. Want to live on 100k? Only takes 4 years.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#180

Post by germinalphrase »

nostromo wrote: post #166
kough wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion? Organized Christianity is just one flavor.

> Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion? I'd call that mindfulness not religion.

Religion has been the guiding force for this kind of internal reflection and family/community thought. As religion has declined in many west societies, we haven’t replaced them effectively.

We may not need more religion, but it sure seems like we need something. Building our society so heavily on economic expediency can’t be healthy long term.

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