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US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

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Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#171

Post by mindslight »

gdubs wrote: post #30

I pretty much assume that unless I make eye contact with a driver and get some kind of acknowledgement, I don’t trust that they see me. By far the closest calls I’ve had are stop signs where someone in an SUV stops, doesn’t look right or left (or worse, doesn’t look up from their phone), and then just goes. I also hate “share the road” situations where the right thing to do is take up the whole lane; drivers are almo…

> I pretty much assume that unless I make eye contact with a driver and get some kind of acknowledgement

1000 times this. IMHO this, and the closely related sizing up each other's expected path, is what is sorely missing in a lot of the US. One of the few times I was able to walk at a car (such that I would pass behind it) in a west coast parking lot and not have the driver stop in my way and wave me on like they did me a favor, it had a Red Sox sticker on the back.

> dealing with road rage as you occupy the full lane

Meh, free soda.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#172

Post by closetohome »

bloomca wrote: post #145

Well, in the US cars _always_ have the right of way (technically, it is illegal, but who cares, drivers think they are entitled to it). So, nobody stops for you at pedestrian crossings, unless you already are walking on it (and you can even feel their frustration), everybody pulls ahead on the pedestrian crossings at intersections, thus making it dangerous for people, who have to slide around. And the turn on right,…

> Well, in the US

Parts of the US. Where I live if you pause near the edge of a sidewalk for too long cars will just start screeching to a stop and waving for you to cross. To the point that it's a problem.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#173

Post by nraynaud »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #158
justinph wrote: post #11

This article fails to mention one of the biggest factors, which is the increased prevalence of SUVs and Trucks. These oversized vehicles have higher grilles and increased mass. The higher grille means injuries that on a car would have been a leg injury where the pedestrian ends up on the hood are abdominal injuries where the pedestrian can be pushed under the vehicle. The increased mass also means longer stopping dis…

New trucks are insane. You can't see a small child infront at all. Honestly I'm shocked its legal.

most of them would illegal in Europe, because of pedestrian safety.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#174

Post by timerol »

justinph wrote: post #11

This article fails to mention one of the biggest factors, which is the increased prevalence of SUVs and Trucks. These oversized vehicles have higher grilles and increased mass. The higher grille means injuries that on a car would have been a leg injury where the pedestrian ends up on the hood are abdominal injuries where the pedestrian can be pushed under the vehicle. The increased mass also means longer stopping dis…

I've personally advocated this position for nearly a decade now. I joke about having a Napolean complex with cars - I don't like driving anything that's taller than I am. (5'7") People often are confused by that comment, so I elaborate: When I'm up that high, I feel like I could run over a small child and not even feel it. Most of the people I mention this to feel more safe sitting higher in their car than other drivers, and don't see where this escalating arms race is going.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#175

Post by ryantgtg »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #152
ryantgtg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, you literally can't "slap a 25 sign on a stretch of road where 90% of people feel like 30 is reasonable 90% of the time." That would be a violation of the vehicle code, which states that speeds are determined by the 85th percentile of operating speeds.

As far as "laws CA has that most places don't have" that seems like one of the few reasonable ones. (and I say that as someone who has spent way to much time reading up on traffic and vehicle speed related things). In addition to delivering reasonable speed limits in most places it prevents towns from lowering speed limits in key areas to enable law enforcement rent seeking and probably saves countless hours of argui…

Another perspective is that "speeding leads to increased speed limit."

Generally, many streets are not designed in a context-sensitive way, but instead designed to fit the standards of a limited functional roadway classification system (arterial, collector, local). The passive safety approach of the '60s, as championed by the NHTSA, assumed that crashes are inevitable, and so the safety focus was put on preventing injury after a crash. Thus arterials, for example, have a similar design in which many roadside objects (trees, signs, lights, bollards, etc) were removed, with a "soft landing" on the side. And now we have big wide straight streets that, in their design, encourage us to drive faster.

There are extensive efforts to revise this CA law because of the unintended consequence that it makes roads more dangerous for non-vehicular travelers.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#176

Post by brewdad »

nradov wrote: post #138
everdev wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biking on a windy road with no shoulder is like swimming in a harbor. If you turn a blind corner and there's an oncoming car and a bike in your lane you need exceptional reflexes to avoid and accident. Most roads were designed for cars not bikes. I'm all for bike Lanes, but there should be a minimum speed limit on roads too. It's similarly not safe to be going 5mph on a 35mph road.

When going around a blind corner you have to reduce speed enough to be able to stop quickly or avoid any obstacles. This is just basic defensive driving. It's not about bikes; deer, fallen tree branches, and stalled cars are common on those roads.

Exactly. There's a reason that curve is marked 25mph (or 15mph even). It's not that a modern vehicle can't negotiate the curve safely above that speed, it's that you can't see far enough ahead to safely stop for anything that might be on the road ahead. Pedestrian, cyclist, or 10 ton boulder.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#177

Post by jbarberu »

rmdashrfstar wrote: post #126
jbarberu wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sorry if this sounds rude It does, a little bit, but that's ok. No, it wasn't a surprise that it wasn't as bike friendly as Sweden. My comment was I was shocked at how extremely hostile Florida in particular was. I hadn't been to Florida prior to moving here. I committed to move away from Sweden because my wife couldn't stand it any more, the social aspects of Sweden are not all that peachy. It's really hard to brea…

Can you elaborate on what you mean about the social aspects of Sweden not being peachy? Many people in the US describe Sweden as a utopia for Americans looking for a new foreign country to call home... any input on that sentiment would be appreciated.

My wife is American, she came to study in Sweden, I'm a native. She lived in Sweden for 7 years and was struggling to learn the language, people are very insistent on speaking English if they hear that's your native language. That's nice and all, but it makes it hard to fully become part of society. The biggest issue is the individualism bordering on egotism, people just don't want to deal with strangers.

Being half-Spanish I often compare to that culture. Over there you'll see kids, teenagers, adults and old people hanging out in bars together at 1am on the weekends. Over in Sweden you're supposed to stay locked up in your apartment after 6pm once you're past your 70s.

If you're seriously considering moving away from the US I'd suggest looking at Norway, which seems like a much friendlier place to me.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#178

Post by vardump »

ams6110 wrote: post #148
magduf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move? And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices…

The US dwarfs Sweden in size and cultural diversity. There are many places to live in the US that are as nice or nicer than Sweden. There are many places that are not.

I've heard this pretty often, and intuitively it sounds like it might be true. However, do you have any references about that?

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#179

Post by JadeNB »

magduf wrote: post #102
jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

>Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move? And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices…

While your first paragraph is apposite to the post:

> Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move?

surely the proper answer to:

> And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices. The US is definitely not. Why would you leave there to come here?

is "none of your business", and the answer to:

> That's like me leaving the US and moving to El Salvador, thinking it'll somehow be nicer.

is that the grandparent didn't say he or she expected the US to be nicer than Sweden, only implied an expectation that it would be less cyclist-hostile than it (the US) actually is.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#180

Post by dmonagha »

maxxxxx wrote: post #166
jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

" I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather" The Florida lifestyle is to drive from air conditioned place to air conditioned place in your car. I am exaggerating but you should try ORegon or Washington for a more active lifestyle.

>The Florida lifestyle is to drive from air conditioned place to air conditioned place in your car. I am exaggerating but you should try ORegon or Washington for a more active lifestyle.

On the coasts people are very active. True the median age is much higher however they usually move to the coast to enjoy being outside year round.

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