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U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

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Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#171

Post by femiagbabiaka »

remarkEon wrote: post #161
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineers have a habit of assuming problems are more intuitive than they actually are. Even with H1B, there are literally not enough engineers in the Valley to saturate the demand from companies. BLS estimates that the number of employed software engineers will go up 24% next year, that’s insane. Also, I’m not seeing this supposed depression in salaries. The median salary for a software engineer is 103k a ye…

>Even with H1B, there are literally not enough engineers in the Valley to saturate the demand from companies. Why is this? This sounds like a huge U.S. talent development problem. How does this visa change help to fix this issue? >I can’t find any to prove that H1Bs are dragging down salaries. The very fact that the number of employed software engineers is expected to go up by 24% in a single year is the evidence you…

> Why is this? This sounds like a huge U.S. talent development problem. How does this visa change help to fix this issue?

It doesn’t, I’m against it.

> The very fact that the number of employed software engineers is expected to go up by 24% in a single year is the evidence you're looking for that there is a massive supply distortion in the labor market.

Yes... because the demand for software engineers is increasing every year and can’t keep up with supply.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#173

Post by mc32 »

arcticbull wrote: post #169
mc32 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting control over who comes in and who goes out is not “anti-immigrant rhetoric”, If those countries had sudden surges, you’d see them change, just look at the Venezuela/Colombia border to see how a surge will change opinion anc behavior. Chile is also cracking down on illegal entries now that they’re more prevalent. No country will have unrestricted immigration, otherwise why not form a union with neighbors? Also…

It’s not false it’s just irrelevant. People are people no matter where they’re from, the US has some of the toughest immigration laws anywhere, immigrants boost the economy and the US is squandering it’s opportunity by letting countries like Canada take in the worlds best and brightest.

I take you haven’t been to Japan, South Africa, Korea or China. We’re not tough by a long shot.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#174

Post by femiagbabiaka »

tossaccount123 wrote: post #167
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineering isn’t most professions. Salaries have been going up more than a decade accounting for inflation. If 10 million software engineers dropped in Silicon Valley, a lot of things would happen (for one there’s nowhere for them to live). But that’s not what’s happening.

It was hyperbole to show the effect of supply and demand More and more I notice how similar software engineers are beginning to sound like the "Made in America" factory workers who said China could never do their job. Never take the present comfy situation for granted

Software engineer salaries have been rising in a globalized market. Companies can already hire wherever they want. Many do.

I have no doubt that if companies can pay workers less then they will. But that’s not what’s happening.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#175

Post by arcticbull »

mc32 wrote: post #173
arcticbull wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not false it’s just irrelevant. People are people no matter where they’re from, the US has some of the toughest immigration laws anywhere, immigrants boost the economy and the US is squandering it’s opportunity by letting countries like Canada take in the worlds best and brightest.

I take you haven’t been to Japan, South Africa, Korea or China. We’re not tough by a long shot.

I sure have, and Japan believe it or not has no caps or quotas on immigration and just introduced a bunch of measures to make it easier to immigrate. Limiting immigrants is a bad thing and the US could stand to benefit hugely, economically and socially, by laxening the rules.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#176

Post by humbleMouse »

joshe wrote: post #94

I've worked with a few H1-B holders in Silicon Valley and they're awesome. A great improvement would be to allow H1B holders to change jobs easily (maybe after a year). It's too easy for them to get stuck in not great situations. It would be great for everyone if they could move to better fitting jobs, especially for startups who have trouble running H1-B programs. If you are, like me, a software engineer, you should…

> I've worked with a few H1-B holders in Silicon Valley and they're awesome.

To counter your anecdote, I've worked with countless H1-B's over the years, and while a handful have been awesome most of them are absolutely terrible.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#177

Post by remarkEon »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #171
remarkEon wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even with H1B, there are literally not enough engineers in the Valley to saturate the demand from companies. Why is this? This sounds like a huge U.S. talent development problem. How does this visa change help to fix this issue? >I can’t find any to prove that H1Bs are dragging down salaries. The very fact that the number of employed software engineers is expected to go up by 24% in a single year is the evidence you…

> Why is this? This sounds like a huge U.S. talent development problem. How does this visa change help to fix this issue? It doesn’t, I’m against it. > The very fact that the number of employed software engineers is expected to go up by 24% in a single year is the evidence you're looking for that there is a massive supply distortion in the labor market. Yes... because the demand for software engineers is increasing e…

>and can’t keep up with supply.

yes...the very definition of a labor distortion that drives down wages.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#178

Post by mc32 »

arcticbull wrote: post #175
mc32 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take you haven’t been to Japan, South Africa, Korea or China. We’re not tough by a long shot.

I sure have, and Japan believe it or not has no caps or quotas on immigration and just introduced a bunch of measures to make it easier to immigrate. Limiting immigrants is a bad thing and the US could stand to benefit hugely, economically and socially, by laxening the rules.

What does a quota matter when you have other real effective restrictions.

Also, I’m for immigration where we have proven needs. I don’t agree with flooding the market and depressing wages for average workers. PhDs, sure, rare skills, sure.

Or, let’s put it this way, would you be in favor we took Japan’s immigration system part and parcel and implemented it as they have?

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#180

Post by treis »

joshe wrote: post #159
treis wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just because "immigrants lower wages" is "common knowledge" doesn't make it true. [1] From your own cite: >Immigrant workers can either be substitutes for native-born workers or complements to them. When immigrant workers are substitutes for native-born workers, they compete for similar jobs. Using a simple supply and demand model, an influx of substitutable workers constitutes an increase in the supply of labor, ca…

That's the section where they acknowledge that, yes, people lose jobs to immigrants. They go on to say that actually more people gain jobs at higher wages because of immigrants. There's a section on high tech jobs to read too, take a look. Most people believe that immigrants generally lower wages and take jobs. They almost never do. Economists who have done hundreds of studies on different wage markets have found tha…

>Also in the paper? "... how does immigration affect the average American?...annual economic gains to the native-born population to be between 0.1 and 0.3 percent of gross domestic product". This is an astonishingly large benefit.

That is $50-150 per year for a household with a median income. It's not an astonishingly large benefit.

And the GDP is entirely the wrong thing to look at. In the last two decades the U.S. has roughly doubled its GDP while the median household income hasn't increased at all. Nobody really doubts that bringing in immigrants skilled or otherwise will make the economy larger. It's more about who benefits. If you're the guy that runs the business using all of this immigrant labor you do great. If you're the guy competing with immigrants for jobs you don't do great.

>That's the section where they acknowledge that, yes, people lose jobs to immigrants. They go on to say that actually more people gain jobs at higher wages because of immigrants.

>There's a section on high tech jobs to read too, take a look.

All I see is a quote from Bill Gates and misleading statistics. Nothing that indicates that more Americans work in high tech fields at higher wages due to immigrants.

>And hey, when have you ever known software to not create the need for more software :0)

Which you hire more Indians to write...

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