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I'm going to work full-time on free software

drewdevault.com

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Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#171

Post by blfr »

chriswarbo wrote: post #132
blfr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's sad in the same sense gigahours wasted in front of TVs are sad.

I get the sentiment, but "bullshit jobs" are also a waste of time (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs ); those also have the same downsides as many jobs, like stress, abusive managers, etc. There are also many jobs which are actively harmful to society and/or the environment (e.g. cold calling), where it would be better for everyone if those workers could just watch TV instead. I think this is one of th…

Bullshit jobs problem is entirely caused by labour being too cheap in turn caused by the only now industrializing third world. Same with poor working conditions.

If the corporations had to pay the full cost of employing people without the option to subsidize it witch cheap Chinese labour, they would long had to get rid of most bullshit jobs (some inefficiency is of course unavoidable) and make work much better organized.

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#173

Post by Verdex »

onetimeusename wrote: post #79
RussianCow wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people probably won't do nothing because that's boring. I think you underestimate the amount of people that are content with not doing anything.

yes, I am surprised this is overlooked. It may be that tech workers who like the idea of UBI imagine working on open source projects. I picture a large percentage of the population choosing to use drugs, drink, play video games, pick up a hobby that doesn't pay, watch TV, or even just do nothing. Then as a result of squandering their time, these people could become permanently unemployable or unskilled and would have…

The thing is, though, that the people who really do nothing are already doing nothing. They provide zero or negative productivity at work and only do the minimal required to not get fired. Or they bounce from job to job eating up everyone's time.

I'm more concerned with people who decide that they want to do something destructive. Staying up til 4am is possible when the food check comes no matter what. Deciding that you want to ruin someone's life by not letting them sleep ever seems like it could easily become a pastime.

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#174

Post by RussianCow »

CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #150
RussianCow wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people probably won't do nothing because that's boring. I think you underestimate the amount of people that are content with not doing anything.

In places where an UBI has been tried economic activity has gone up.

Do you have examples? The only trials I'm aware of (Canada and Finland) were not truly universal, and were done on a very small scale on a short time period, so it's hard to really gleam anything from them. I'm hoping Chicago ends up going through with their trial[0], because that will be a much more useful study.

[0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/chicago-considering-trial-fo...

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#175

Post by jpindar »

gpm wrote: post #156
tokyodude wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will happen with the people who can't manage their money and blow their UBI other things?

One proposal I've heard for this is spreading it over the year, have the government deposit money in a back account once per week (this requires a system where everyone has bank accounts to get UBI, but that shouldn't be too costly).

There are already benefit programs that distribute money by putting it on a debit card, eliminating the need for a bank account.

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#176

Post by sctb »

skrowl wrote: post #18

Here's my best argument for why UBI can't work in the USA. Let me know where i went wrong: My TV told me a "living wage" is at least $15 (but probably higher in liberal controlled areas like NYC / most CA cities / etc due to high cost of living & taxation), but we'll start with $15 to make it easy. $15/hr at 40hr/week = $31,200 per year. $31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000 Written out (for e…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18921194 and marked it off-topic.

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#177

Post by AdrianB1 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #155
tom_ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Payroll tax is not your salary - it's tax on their employment of you, of an amount due that's proportional to your salary. It's the company's money, not yours. (Would they pay you more if that tax wasn't due? Well, possibly, I suppose. Or they might just pay you the same, and then buy more stuff, employ more people, pay the company owners more money, that sort of thing.)

What are you smoking? Change it, it is bad for logic: any tax a company pays for you is from the money you bring in, not from the shareholders personal bank accounts. Nobody pays for the pleasure to have someone as an employee, but for the employee to deliver more than what is paid, otherwise you go under.

In Romania by law the company contribution was included in the payroll; there was no change in salaries, but people were finally able to see the total taxes they paid and calculate the percentage correctly: it was about double vs what they thought.

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#178

Post by Verdex »

bjourne wrote: post #32
skrowl wrote: post #18

Here's my best argument for why UBI can't work in the USA. Let me know where i went wrong: My TV told me a "living wage" is at least $15 (but probably higher in liberal controlled areas like NYC / most CA cities / etc due to high cost of living & taxation), but we'll start with $15 to make it easy. $15/hr at 40hr/week = $31,200 per year. $31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000 Written out (for e…

My best counterargument: Who cares about numbers? What everyone needs is food and housing. There is plenty of that for everyone to live comfortable and full-filling lives. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can work on what really matters which is SAVING THE PLANET for future generations.

I'm not sure what your actual position is, but this feels like a better attitude. Let's not worry about making UBI work, but instead let's worry about making sure that everyone has food and shelter. I think using money as a middle man to solve those problems will ultimately be problematic, but I'm not opposed to finding ways to provide what people actually require.

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#179

Post by jpindar »

tokyodude wrote: post #120
dllthomas wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing that happens now when people who can't manage their money blow their salary on other things, except that it's marginally clearer what the problem is.

Right now those people get food stamps and welfare

Wow, talk about living in a bubble. Do you really think that a person who runs out of money can just go and get more from the government?

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#180

Post by idontpost »

hinkley wrote: post #143
blfr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's the modern version of a minor landed gentleman who can pursue his interests. It's how we got science. Sadly, the best argument against UBI is that vast, vast majority of people will not be working full time on F/OSS or quite possible anything else.

The best argument I know for UBI is that manufacturing is propped up by overconsumption because we have been able to make more than we need for a very long time. If one worker makes enough stuff for five people what do the other four do?

They starve.
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