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Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

arstechnica.com

171–180 of 277 posts

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#171
Tim Sweeney (Founder of Epic Games) reacted strongly to this in a thread on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/108340746025221734...

"We specifically make the UE4 EULA apply perpetually so that when you obtain a version under a given EULA, you can stay on that version and operate under that EULA forever if you choose."

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unity is not open source Important to note, neither is Unreal really. It's not a pedantic distinction here either, as it affects how far you can take a project that modifies the core engine. Not that I'm against Unreal in any way, it's just important to keep in mind.

Yes, UE4 is not FOSS as per GNU, it is open source in that you can see the code and there's a large community contributing fixes and additions with every new version. I think the distinction is pedantic for most users.

You're wrong, users of software libraries care whether they're allowed to fork the library or not.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#174
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve pretty much abandoned developing everything but Steam. You'll still see a few token projects come out of Valve, but it seems like they've basically turned into Steam, Inc.

That's not true at all, though? Source has continued to get changes & upgrades over the years. It has a vulkan backend, the UI system is no longer scaleform but a web-based system called Panorama, a new physics engine called Rubikon that replaced the old Havok engine, etc... They aren't putting out many new games, although they did just release Artifact a couple months ago. But DOTA 2 & CSGO continue to get updates,…

Are those updates to the Source engine/SDK available to devs outside of Valve though?

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#175
post #163
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do that, and your game will never ship - because developing your own engine is a beast of a timesink. The open source offerings are toys compared to Unity/Unreal.

What do you think of https://xenko.com/ ?

And Godot?

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#176
post #37

> You may not directly or indirectly distribute the Unity Software, including the runtime portion of the Unity Software (the “Unity Runtime”), or your Project Content (if it incorporates the Unity Runtime) by means of streaming or broadcasting so that any portion of the Unity Software is primarily executed on or simulated by the cloud or a remote server and transmitted over the Internet or other network to end user d…

I dunno this seems clear enough to me - they don't want you circumventing the terms of your license by running the game on a single machine and streaming it to many players. Each game instance requires a separate license. I'm sure this isn't intended to stop you from running your game's central multiplayer server. It's just to make sure you pay an appropriate licensing fee for Unity.

The article explicitly says that Improbable was told by Unity that the new TOS “specifically disallow[s] services like Improbable’s to function with their engine.”

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#177

Tim Sweeney (Founder of Epic Games) reacted strongly to this in a thread on Twitter. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/108340746025221734... "We specifically make the UE4 EULA apply perpetually so that when you obtain a version under a given EULA, you can stay on that version and operate under that EULA forever if you choose."

In fairness, that's easy for a guy sitting on Fortnite to say.

That said, I do agree with his point. Unity should consider making these new TOS provisions apply from today forward instead of making them apply to everything. (That probably won't happen, because it would kneecap their upcoming cloud offerings, but I think ideally that's how it should work.)

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#178

So right now we know the "what", but not the "why". What Improbable really has, or claims to have, is a way to scale massively multiplayer games where everyone is in the same world. They have a back end which is basically a synching system for small data elements between computers in a data center. Think of it as being like the way a shared memory multiprocessor synchs its memory system. Some data items belong to a s…

> (Hm. What if you wrote a back end which, instead of needing multiple "cloud" machines, ran on a single huge Amazon AWS instance, like the one with 128 CPUs. That's an easier problem than coordinating it over the network. You might not be able to support a planet sized world, but you could support large islands you have to teleport between.)

You can get really big systems these days; scaling up before scaling out really helps with coordination problems. But scaling up your servers also makes redundancy and data retention harder. And, when you end up running single (or paired) systems that are the biggest you can get, economics are often lined up against you -- motherboards and processors for 4-socket systems cost way more than for 2-socket systems, and they're updated at a slower pace. If you can make a system to allow seamlessly transitioning region boundaries across server nodes, that should work fine with a single node server, but also enable you to use less expensive nodes; and in cloudy situations, could enable ramping capacity to match usage in real time.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, UE4 is not FOSS as per GNU, it is open source in that you can see the code and there's a large community contributing fixes and additions with every new version. I think the distinction is pedantic for most users.

Isn't Unity similar in that regard? (well, as far as viewing the source-code, they don't accept patches to my understanding) https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/03/26/releasing-the-unity-c-s...

No, the amount of unity released is tiny.

Re: Unity Engine ToS change makes cloud-based SpatialOS games illegal

#180
I'm not familiar with Unity so I have a few questions which aren't clear to me.

Why is SpatialOS running Unity code in the cloud? Presumably a Unity client can talk to an arbitrary server backend over standard network protocols, right? Was it simply easier to write the backend in the same SDK as the frontend? Does Unity provide a networking layer that works better with both sides running Unity SDK?

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