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The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

theguardian.com

171–180 of 195 posts

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#171

Americans are becoming too rational and this is a major problem. When you over-value rationality, you expect to be able to have a rational answer to every question. The hand-licking story that made the front page today illustrates this point perfectly. Approached rationally, the mom could not solve the problem, no amount of mental effort would yield a resolution or insight into the issue. When the mind expects an ans…

Have you read Voltaire's Bastards? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6584.Voltaire_s_Bastards

It is an in depth criticism of the overly rational. A lot of it went over my head or didn't make sense because I don't have a strong background on some historical/philosophical touchpoints, but I thought it was a great read.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#172

“Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way. Laugh at the world’s foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you will regret that too; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both. Believe a woman, you will regret it; believe her not, you will also regret it… Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yours…

Is this different than “the grass is always greener on the other side”.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Finally, I had this moment where I felt that my efforts to ramp up the pressure to force him to stop had crossed some line. I felt I was turning into an abusive parent. >> At that moment, I decided this had to stop. I didn't care if he licked his hands the rest of his life. It couldn't be worse than this. > Rational analysis failed, some other way of deciding how to handle it took hold. Notice the semantic shift h…

> I see the original exclusion of empathy and emotion from the decision-making process as irrational. This is because you're reifying rationality onto past events, conflating correct with rational. When she made the decision to stop, she didn't have a rational basis to make that decision, rational means you can connect a decision to logic. She didn't discover that logic, those reasons, until a full year later. That's…

> When she made the decision to stop, she didn't have a rational basis to make that decision, rational means you can connect a decision to logic.

She explained the rational basis in her write-up, which you quoted. The rational basis at the time of the decision was that her actions appeared to her as bordering on those of an abusive parent, which was not her intent, and consequently that stopping her son from licking his hands wasn't worth the cost. Based on these facts she made the rational decision to stop.

> Whatever you choose is going to have consequences.

Choices do have consequences, but there is no need to choose between "multiple truths"—only between multiple actions. If two or more "truths" are equally consistent with the facts, equally valid, then there is no reason why you can't defer judgement pending additional information. The fact that you chose to act in a way consistent with one version of the "truth" and not the other in a particular situation does not imply that you believe the first version to be true and the other false. You could turn around and choose the opposite action the next time without the slightest hint of hypocrisy.

The key point I'm trying to make here is that, having chosen to act in a way consistent with one particular version of the "truth", one should not then lie to oneself and pretend that this version is true, excluding all other possibilities, in the absence of evidence. It's OK (and rational) to admit that your action was chosen arbitrarily, and that you still don't know which version of the "truth" is real.

> What if you don't even know what you're ignorant of or that you are in fact ignorant?

Then the first step is to admit that you have a problem. Recognizing "unknown unknowns" is a hard problem, but it's an important skill to learn.

> If you are comfortable with irrational ways of gathering information, like listening to your gut...

If it has a history of providing useful information, it isn't irrational to pay attention even if you don't know how that information was obtained.

> So is your next argument going to be that "going by your gut" is a rational approach?

Just "going by your gut" without considering other factors isn't any more rational than acting purely on instinct or emotion. It is, however, one component you can use as input to make a rational decision. Acting rationally does not mean you disregard instincts or emotions or "gut feelings" or any of the other hard-to-quantify aspects of our existence. These things are important and exist for a reason. They aren't always right, however, and that's where rational thought comes in. Giving full reign to one's impulses and emotions, without filtering them through the lens of reason, is harmful both to oneself and to others.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking strictly for myself, I have not found this to be true. I do enjoy collecting skills, and learning is fun. But no matter what the skill, eventually you hit the wall of diminishing returns, and I find that pride in that last 1-2% of performance is not worth the cost in time; I would rather improve a weaker skill another 10-20% with the same amount of training. And fundamentally, I find pride a bit too solipsis…

I agree. The challenge for me has been that in practicing gratitude I find myself fearing the loss of the things for which I am grateful even more.

I can't say I am 100% great at following my own advice, here, but I do find that it helps to try and focus on experiences that I am grateful for instead of physical things, and for much the same reason as what you give- you can't have experiences taken away in the same manner as a physical thing.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#175
Sebastian Junger’s work is relevant to this, and after a decade of thinking about happiness and looking back on my own experiences and others, he lays out explicitly what I couldn’t put into words. His book Tribe is worth the read, and he has two documentaries on Netflix, Restrepo and Korengal that touches on the issue lightly.

It answers the question of why cancer patients can miss being sick, why soldiers miss being on the frontlines and why I was happiest living in a third world hole in a beat up apartment vs the luxury I’m living in now.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#176
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those crazy cases where parts of American population were seemingly hypnotised by advertising and are spending insane amounts of money on a commodity item. Here in Poland, the most I've paid for a mattress was an equivalent of $130. I've never had problems with them.

We ended up buy a model that was about $2000 just because we could tell the difference between the $700 model. But yeah, why is it $2000? What value is there actually in the mattress that justifies it? And if a cheaper option exists that would allow one to exist within one's needs, why not get that instead?

There are some very good mattresses online for much less than 2k. We recently got some all-latex (normally very expensive) twins for $600.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#177
post #92

There is nothing which will make you happy. You must choose to be happy. There is no job, no amount of money, no relationship, which will make you feel whole and happy and content and done. The opposite doesn't hold - there are jobs and relationships and financial strains which will certainly keep you from being happy. The goal isn't for a job or a relationship to make you happy. It's to enable other things which are…

Happiness is not a choice. If you think it is, try learning more about clinical depression.

But choosing to deal with your depression is a choice. I know this from experience.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#178

“Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way. Laugh at the world’s foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you will regret that too; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both. Believe a woman, you will regret it; believe her not, you will also regret it… Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yours…

I disagree. I wrote this in another thread just yesterday I think. My philosophy: make the best choice you can given the information you have, and you'll not have cause to regret anything in your life. Some choices might hurt and you might not like the outcome, but you did what you felt was best. You can learn from it, but there is never cause to regret it.

I would say that everyone makes the best choice they are able to given their current circumstances.

Everyone's trying their best with what they've got. Sometimes you don't have the energy, information, innate ability, etc to make the absolute best choice. Actually many times. So you make the choice that is best according to your current circumstances and abilities.

That's not to say people can't improve. When they do, they've upped their level of "best they can do".

When I remind myself of this, that people are doing the best they can at that moment, it helps me forgive myself and forgive others for disappointing me.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#179
post #131
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of what he says is a bit disturbing, but he has a lot of statistics and cites a lot of sources that seem very credible, and I've yet to come across any counter-arguments that are anything more than incredulity and ideology. I'd love to see a plausible and knowledgeable counter argument.

Not everything he says is off base and he does present the basics of clinical psychology well. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is an interesting field one can gain a lot from studying. However many things he talks or just hints at can be questional and neither his expertise nor fairly presented. It helps his cause that many criticisms of him are terrible and involve many fabrications. This youtube channel contra points…

Well that's very entertaining, but sill doesn't engage with his actual points directly. "You have rules - have a purpose in life, and we have rules - gender pronouns". That's not an equivalence. Peterson's rules are just guidelines, in Canada the gender pronoun thing is a legally compelled requirement under which Peterson's University tried to officially discipline him, not a guideline.

Fobbing that off as "well he's just being mean to us nice people", when they went after his career and means of supporting his family (at the time), doesn't cut it.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I wrote this in another thread just yesterday I think. My philosophy: make the best choice you can given the information you have, and you'll not have cause to regret anything in your life. Some choices might hurt and you might not like the outcome, but you did what you felt was best. You can learn from it, but there is never cause to regret it.

I would say that everyone makes the best choice they are able to given their current circumstances. Everyone's trying their best with what they've got. Sometimes you don't have the energy, information, innate ability, etc to make the absolute best choice. Actually many times. So you make the choice that is best according to your current circumstances and abilities. That's not to say people can't improve. When they do…

Totally agree. Worrying about making the optimal choice is no good. Do the best you can. Just don't be lazy about it :) And considering that others are doing their best is a great strategy in many situations.
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