Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash • Hacker News Board

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#171

Post by darkpuma » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 7:51 PM UTC

headstorm wrote: post #72

darkpuma wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inconsiderate: thoughtlessly causing hurt or inconvenience to others. Smokers are inconsiderate because they thoughtlessly cause harm or inconvenience to others by smelling offensive. They brush off the objections of all non-smokers and tell the rest of the world to fuck off because they selfishly prefer smoking to not causing olfactory offense.

Since this comment has gone far afield of the original topic (cigarette butts as litter), I want to see you complain about the inconsiderateness of people wearing perfume and of people that smell of smoke after they sit around campfires.

> "I want to see you complain about the inconsiderateness of people wearing perfume and of people that smell of smoke after they sit around campfires."

People who wear perfume have the excuse of believing they were being considerate, their fault is ignorance not selfishness. No smoker can earnestly claim they made themselves smell like an ash tray because they believed other people would appreciate it.

As for camp fires, if somebody fails to bath before coming into the office after spending the weekend camping, that is a very clear cut case of poor hygiene, which of course is very inconsiderate.

Are you happy now? Do you think the reputation of smokers has been rehabilitated thanks to your digressions? That smokers are notorious for liter is a consequence of their notorious personality defect of being inconsiderate. They don't care about how their actions impact those around them. That's why they liter. That's why they picked up a habit that makes them smell like an ash tray.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#172

Post by darkpuma » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #56

homero wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah i thought it was biodegradable and thought they would melt away.

If they were biodegradable they wouldn't completely cover the shoulders of every road and highway.

Even if they were biodegradable, why would that make it okay to throw them on the ground? Half an uneaten sandwich is certainly biodegradable. Ants or birds would probably dispose of it in days. But what sort of degenerate just tosses half a sandwich onto the sidewalk? That's inconceivable behavior for most people.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#173

Post by Jach » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

EamonnMR wrote: post #129

I wonder, will the same people who demanded that plastic straws go away now attack smokers with similar zeal?

Probably not, because the large majority of homeless people are smokers, and they've got enough troubles.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#174

Post by uxp100 » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

jacobush wrote: post #131

uxp100 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes taste like burning paper, and at their best smell just OK, but most smokers aren't walking around with cigarillos, despite the better ones tasting and smelling very nice. It's about nicotine delivery, and even the new hit with the kids, Juul, seems not as nice as a cigarette to me as a very infrequent nicotine user. Maybe box mods are different, I've only every tried the types of vapes you can get at tobac…

Snuff taken the way I know it, under the upper lip, gives a slower hit but a much stronger hit than cigarettes. What I wonder is about the new "vape-like" pens which heats (real) tobacco but doesn't burn it. If that is similar enough to cigarettes to win cigarette smokers over. I would think so, but I'm not a real smoker (only tried a few times) so can't offer my own anecdata.

If it's anything like weed, than actually less similar to cigarettes than existing vapes.

Sniffing snuff is much stronger than cigarettes but less intense I would say. Like if you don't smoke a cigarette could give you the spins, but in a few minutes you're ok. I have had a few sniffs of snuff, and then a few hours later still felt a bit up, and had trouble sleeping. Unlike chewing or dipping though, I think it's hard to accidentally have way too much.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#175

Post by darkpuma » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 8:13 PM UTC

krisroadruck wrote: post #100

odiroot wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but are you five or something? There are very good reasons to treat smokers negatively and you, completely without shame, gave us another one.

Just out of curiosity, do you also think its totally fine to treat fat people negatively? Ugh. The amount of vitriol in this whole comment section towards smokers is disturbing. Almost every smoker I know picked up the habit in their early teens. A habit which is extremely addicting, and very hard to kick, more so the longer you've been doing it. Being shitty to them certainly wont help. At the macro level first they…

If fat people were misting other people with lard and dropping half eaten sandwiches on the ground everywhere they went, I assure you they'd get as much hate as smokers. The treatment smokers get is well deserved. They are not victims.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#176

Post by darkpuma » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 8:18 PM UTC

snarfy wrote: post #81

slazaro wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an asshole to assholes... makes you an asshole regardless.

It's a vicious cycle. That's kind of my point. Smokers are assholes because they were harassed. Non-smokers harass smokers because they are polluting assholes.

Your theory falls apart when you remember that smokers were littering and smoking next to pregnant women from the very beginning, generations ago, before they started to get any social pushback at all. Smokers have always behaved like this, their behavior predates the reaction against it. Being inconsiderate comes as naturally to a smoker as singing does to a songbird.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#177

Post by headstorm » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #171

headstorm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this comment has gone far afield of the original topic (cigarette butts as litter), I want to see you complain about the inconsiderateness of people wearing perfume and of people that smell of smoke after they sit around campfires.

> "I want to see you complain about the inconsiderateness of people wearing perfume and of people that smell of smoke after they sit around campfires." People who wear perfume have the excuse of believing they were being considerate, their fault is ignorance not selfishness. No smoker can earnestly claim they made themselves smell like an ash tray because they believed other people would appreciate it. As for camp fi…

You are acting as an apologist for every scent that you personally don't mind. You are the one who digressed away from pollution to odor.

Let go of your hate, please. And please stop conflating odor with pollution, it is not becoming of you.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#178

Post by eesmith » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #138

lmilcin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking is addiction that is demonstrably bad for your health and has no benefits. I grew up in an environment where smoking was encouraged and I can understand a person that conforms to their buddies. I have personally never tasted it but when I was teen virtually everybody smoked and it took a lot of willpower to withstand the pressure. I think these days, in western world, except for schools, low income neighborho…

No benefits? > The heaviest smokers, with everything else being equal, had about half the number of parasitic eggs in their stool, compared to everyone else > Smoking kills. But if you’re a bird and if you want to kill parasites, that can be a good thing. City birds have taken to stuffing their nests with cigarette butts to poison potential parasites. > 8 intestinal parasite species have been recovered singly or in c…

As far as I can tell, the references you gave do not support your implication that there are benefits to nicotine smoking.

"The heaviest smokers" refers to THC smokers, not nicotine, which is the topic at hand. It may be that nicotine smoking does the same, but your reference does not show that that has been demonstrated outside of a Petri dish.

The "no benefits" refers to human health, not birds. Even with humans, smoking benefits the wealth of the cigarette manufacturer, which may lead to better health. But that also was not the point.

The prison/tobacco leaf development farm comparison cannot be used to judge the effect of nicotine smoking on one's health. For one, the paper does not mention which population smoked more, nor does it report nicotine levels in the stool samples. For all we know, the prison population may smoke 4x more than the farm workers. Or 1/4th as much.

The "In vitro anthelmintic effect of Tobacco" paper described in your link refers to study in a Petri dish of aqueous and alcoholic extracts of tobacco. It describes how "Dried leaves, stalks and the whole herb of tobacco are widely used as an anti inflammatory, antirheumatic and anthelmintic agent" and cites other papers which use nicotine extracts. This paper therefore cannot be used to conclude there is a beneficial in vivo effect of smoking tobacco.

Lastly, while the blood does indeed go through the lungs, it is wrong to say "a single central hub", as the heart is also a central hub.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#179

Post by bitL » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

Thriptic wrote: post #137

bitL wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get an air purifier with that portable ashtray you need anyway...

Is your suggestion really to spend hundreds of dollars on something I rarely use so someone on the street who I don't know won't be transiently offended by a discretely placed piece of small, biodegradable plant matter? Sorry, but expecting people to do that is not realistic.

More like $50, they already have HEPA filter you need. If you can't tell yourself no, at least improve your health and health of others in a passive way.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#180

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 9:09 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #157

standardUser wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former smoker here and guilty of throwing many butts on the ground even though I find any other form of litter unthinkable. When I was much younger I believed that cigarette butts biodegraded in a couple years. No big deal, right? I distinctly remember reading this on a sign at a campsite when I was about 18. Turns out, that's an ideal scenario and butts can take up to 10 years to break down naturally, and even then…

Thanks for explaining, and I really don't mean to kick you while you're down here, but even if butts did degrade in 2 years, that means they're lying around a long time for birds or animals to eat or choke on them.

[deleted]