Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#171

Post by writepub » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #36

laser wrote: post #29

The suppression of the viewing of the human body in its natural form, especially in art, is one of the deepest perversions of society. It seems so intrinsically tied to the suppression and control of pleasure by institutions seeking dominance over human life. When you control access to the natural pleasures of life, you have control over the motivations and operations of that life. In prior times, when religions were…

I don't think sex is particularly messianic, but I also don't see why censoring and policing nominally adult content should be Google's business - literally or metaphorically. This is just one example from a growing list of questionable moral behaviour and outright abuse of monopoly power. The political reality is that Google has serious trust and credibility issues on many fronts. The more this kind of thing happens…

Just pointing out that Google's not the sole offender here. Apple is known the be stricter on this

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#172

Post by sonnyblarney » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #36

laser wrote: post #29

The suppression of the viewing of the human body in its natural form, especially in art, is one of the deepest perversions of society. It seems so intrinsically tied to the suppression and control of pleasure by institutions seeking dominance over human life. When you control access to the natural pleasures of life, you have control over the motivations and operations of that life. In prior times, when religions were…

I don't think sex is particularly messianic, but I also don't see why censoring and policing nominally adult content should be Google's business - literally or metaphorically. This is just one example from a growing list of questionable moral behaviour and outright abuse of monopoly power. The political reality is that Google has serious trust and credibility issues on many fronts. The more this kind of thing happens…

"but I also don't see why censoring and policing nominally adult content should be Google's business"

Google Play is like a shopping mall, a privately owned public space.

There will be standards.

If you put up some questionable ads in your local mall, you'll get asked to have them taken down.

Those spaces are not intellectual zones, or bastions of expression. They are public/common areas and subject to some kind of basic rules of expression.

Your local library has some rules.

So does your school.

So does your University.

There are infinitely url's that you can use to access content according to a different set of norms, you're free to use them at any time.

This thread exhibits one of the failing aspects of intellectual idealism, in that it so often fails to take into consideration the community - you know - 'other people's opinions'.

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#173

Post by Lazare » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

There is a uniquely annoying feeling you get when you see someone powerful being utterly obtuse and wrong in a way that is damaging to others, but can't readily be challenged.

Everything about this story is just so fundamentally wrongheaded. They're enforcing a deeply misguided policy in a way which is both inconsistent and unfair, yet also inept. There's just so much wrong here, it's hard to even know where to start. They're looking for stuff they shouldn't, in the wrong places, and doing a horrible job of it. There's no reason they should be cracking down on the scourge of random cartoon nipples, but even if there were, they should give content providers who are making good faith efforts to flag content the benefit of the doubt, which clearly they did not for ArtStation. Meanwhile they're incorrectly flagging content, but even worse, they're not applying this policy to, you know, Reddit, Twitter, Instagram or, you know, Google themselves. Even if we needed to protect people from occasional nudity (and again, we don't), this isn't even achieving that. It's like deciding you need to do something drastic to prevent yourself from starving, so you set your couch on fire, while having a fridge full of food.

It's all downside; it makes the world a worse place, helps no one, and Google will pay (effectively) no penalty for it.

Merry Christmas to us all.

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#174

Post by mattnewton » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

I think it’s messed up as a society that women’s bodies are more taboo than shooting people; people are more squeamish around cartoon pictures of breasts than cartoon pictures of people using rifles, and that’s scary to me.

I think this is just google enforcing US cultural norms, but it would be great if there was some kind of US public framework companies could use instead of having to make these calls on their own.

Disclosure: male google employee in an unrelated part of the company with no insider info. My opinions are my own.

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#175

Post by colordrops » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #172

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think sex is particularly messianic, but I also don't see why censoring and policing nominally adult content should be Google's business - literally or metaphorically. This is just one example from a growing list of questionable moral behaviour and outright abuse of monopoly power. The political reality is that Google has serious trust and credibility issues on many fronts. The more this kind of thing happens…

"but I also don't see why censoring and policing nominally adult content should be Google's business" Google Play is like a shopping mall, a privately owned public space. There will be standards. If you put up some questionable ads in your local mall, you'll get asked to have them taken down. Those spaces are not intellectual zones, or bastions of expression. They are public/common areas and subject to some kind of b…

Bad analogy. It's a custom shopping mall that is built just for you. If you want a fully uncensored experience you should get it.

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#176

Post by chmod775 » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #139

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this to be one of the fundamental questions that will charaterize this new century: How is humankind going to cope with so much of humankind? How to deal with "someone's wrong on the internet"? There seem to be these possible answers: a) Everyone agrees to one narrative and moral standard. b) Everyone sticks to their little bit of the world and guards it with walls c) Live and let live and do not feed the t…

The problem with 'live and let live' is that you either choose to let people hurt other people, or you resolve to stop it. If you resolve to stop it, then you have to deal with that problem that everyone thinks different things are harmful. Some people honestly believe that porn is harmful to society and the individuals within it. It's not enough to just say "it's not harmful" because they believe it. And I can't eve…

Firstly, porn != sex. There's no disease that can be transmitted through pornography that I know of.

Secondly, the human race will die out pretty fast without sex.

Food may kill you too, yet it's still needed so we can live™.

So clearly this isn't an useful criterion.

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#177

Post by colordrops » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #139

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this to be one of the fundamental questions that will charaterize this new century: How is humankind going to cope with so much of humankind? How to deal with "someone's wrong on the internet"? There seem to be these possible answers: a) Everyone agrees to one narrative and moral standard. b) Everyone sticks to their little bit of the world and guards it with walls c) Live and let live and do not feed the t…

The problem with 'live and let live' is that you either choose to let people hurt other people, or you resolve to stop it. If you resolve to stop it, then you have to deal with that problem that everyone thinks different things are harmful. Some people honestly believe that porn is harmful to society and the individuals within it. It's not enough to just say "it's not harmful" because they believe it. And I can't eve…

Self- or consensual "harm" should be excluded from anybody else's business. Most sexual activity fits under this category. It's not a difficult problem.

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#178

Post by chmod775 » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

supergirl wrote: post #118

laser wrote: post #29

The suppression of the viewing of the human body in its natural form, especially in art, is one of the deepest perversions of society. It seems so intrinsically tied to the suppression and control of pleasure by institutions seeking dominance over human life. When you control access to the natural pleasures of life, you have control over the motivations and operations of that life. In prior times, when religions were…

it is not really google’s fault. google is obeying american norms. if they were to allow naked pictures you can be sure some senators etc. will be outraged and start their pitchforks. the tragedy here is that google’s dominant position means all other countries have to follow american norms.

You can find pornography easily with many Google products, their search app included. I hear no outcry.

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#179

Post by abvdasker » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

Lazare wrote: post #173

There is a uniquely annoying feeling you get when you see someone powerful being utterly obtuse and wrong in a way that is damaging to others, but can't readily be challenged. Everything about this story is just so fundamentally wrongheaded. They're enforcing a deeply misguided policy in a way which is both inconsistent and unfair, yet also inept. There's just so much wrong here, it's hard to even know where to start…

When something can't be fixed directly I naturally tend to think about how it could have been avoided in the first place.

> There is a uniquely annoying feeling you get when you see someone powerful being utterly obtuse and wrong in a way that is damaging to others, but can't readily be challenged.

I think it comes back to the power structure in place. The enormous money machine that is Google has so few competitors that there is no incentive to treat its customers well. What is Teo going to do? They're already in the App Store. Their appeal was denied.

The part of this that makes me angriest is that Artstation will now have to start paying Google to use their Vision API to implement the censorship requirements Google has imposed on them. My more conspiratorial instincts suggest that this is no more a coincidence than an old school protection racket would be a coincidence.

Re: Google Takes Down Artstation Android App for Explicit Content

#180

Post by shams93 » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #166

partiallypro wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has pretty liberal standards on pornography and art...I mean most pornography and such art is produced in the US itself. Tasteful nudity in the US is not frowned upon, perhaps in public, yes...but I don't know of many countries where that isn't frowned upon outside beaches. I'm not sure what you're referring to, or if you are that familiar with the US. The UK on the other hand and some other European countries…

> I mean most pornography and such art is produced in the US itself Most US pornography is produced in San Fernando Valley - I don't think you can generalize porn/nude art across the US so perhaps you ought to have said "California has pretty liberal standards on pornography and art". Janet Jackson's Nipplegate wouldn't have been a big deal in any of the European countries you mentioned, but Americans were scandalize…

Most porn USED to be produced in the SF Valley, I used to work in the industry. A whole series of new laws forced the industry out of California. My old boss sells insurance now. A lot of modern porn is now produced in eastern europe. Basically no new porn is produced in SFV, only the softcore companies like Vivid are still in business here.