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Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

nytimes.com

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Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#171

Post by Tsubasachan »

chii wrote: post #163
Tsubasachan wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If carriers let outsiders buy cell tower data there is literally nothing you can do except switch on airplane mode.

Or, complain to the local gov't/FCC/consumer ombudsman that carriers are selling this data without consent from the consumer. Embroil them in a PR nightmare. Make it costly.

Honestly do you expect that the US will ever embrace consumer rights?

Anyway I just get cynical when I see people talk about how evil Google is and how Apple protects privacy. Every company you do business with WILL sell of your personal data and that includes mobile operators, banks and ISPs. Until that is illegal the entire discussion about privacy is irrelevant and a sham.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#172

Post by eximius »

matt4077 wrote: post #77
eximius wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think bigger: companies should be required to present their terms in plain English. Not all things need lawyers.

That doesn't make much senser. As soon as you wrtite a legal document in "plain English", whatever that may mean, you would find out how bad plain language is at capturing the endless nuances of actual life that need to be captured in contractual language. I also don't actually find the current language of TOS prohibitively obfuscated, even though English isn't even my first language. The trouble is length far more t…

> Or, you know, just outlaw the stuff that no sane person would ever accept unless forced to by the market converging on one, very low, standard.

I think this and legislation requiring a good faith plain text explanation of terms would work well together. You can have the legalese for the details, but many (most?) Things people care about can be talked about plainly.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#174

Post by LeftTurnSignal »

rdruxn wrote: post #166

I often have trouble explaining to people why this is problematic. I encounter the "I've got nothing to hide" or "Who cares if I get ads that I'm more interested in?" arguments. What do you say to those people?

I try to relate to something they understand a bit more, usually a field their interested in.

For example, my brother is not techy at all, but he's big into cars.

I asked him if he would enjoy Ford sending everything he's doing in his car to the mothership, then selling that info to insurance companies, or used for "marketing." (immediately he understood the issues)

Then I ask if he's comfortable with knowing that if he accidentally speeds, turns too fast, or breaks too often, he may have to pay more for insurance.

This obviously won't work for everyone. I do have the "i have nothing to hide" friends, but i ask them what if someone DID have something to hide? Not everyone loves "showering with the windows open."

It's fine if they don't care about their lives, but what about their childrens lives, or lives of someone they care about? Once it hits that point, they usually just mention that it isn't important and go off about something else to change the subject.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#175

Post by krageon »

chii wrote: post #163
Tsubasachan wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If carriers let outsiders buy cell tower data there is literally nothing you can do except switch on airplane mode.

Or, complain to the local gov't/FCC/consumer ombudsman that carriers are selling this data without consent from the consumer. Embroil them in a PR nightmare. Make it costly.

It doesn't need to come from the towers as we recently saw from the whole Qualcomm thing. There's not really any use burying a Chinese company in a "PR nightmare", because A. they don't care and B. if it becomes a real problem they will resurface with a different name. That being the case, you can of course fight here for a meaningless victory. I cannot imagine a reason to, however.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#176

Post by larrybud »

There needs to be a distinction at the api & permissions level between course and fine geolocation. My weather app doesn't need to know my exact address... location within a half mile or mile would be fine. Similarly with "gas station locator app". But my GPS navigation app DOES need fine location.

If you could control this permission at the app level, many of the privacy issues brought out in the article would be mitigated.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#177

Post by jamaicahest »

Tsubasachan wrote: post #134
bad_user wrote: post #9

iOS now forcing "While Using" option on all apps is the greatest thing ever. Before this, some apps where forcing the "Always" option on users. Uber and Waze come to mind. iOS also gives you a warning from time to time about apps using your location in the background. I think iOS right now has the best location management. --- People are surprised when seeing the Activity section in Google's account details, then fre…

If carriers let outsiders buy cell tower data there is literally nothing you can do except switch on airplane mode.

What do you mean if: https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-cell-carriers-selling-acces...

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#178

Post by clairity »

zanny wrote: post #99
bad_user wrote: post #9

iOS now forcing "While Using" option on all apps is the greatest thing ever. Before this, some apps where forcing the "Always" option on users. Uber and Waze come to mind. iOS also gives you a warning from time to time about apps using your location in the background. I think iOS right now has the best location management. --- People are surprised when seeing the Activity section in Google's account details, then fre…

I at least get a substantial value add to my life having Google track me everywhere. It might be overly sentimental but being able to see everywhere I've been in the last ~seven years on Maps feels to me like one of the great innovations Google has made. If people accept Google will sell that data to subsidize the cost of persisting it you get a permanent record of everywhere you've gone. I think its cool to have. It…

if anyone wants to track your life without divulging it all to google, check out the memex that andrew louis built in ruby: http://confreaks.tv/videos/rubyconf2018-building-a-memex-wit...

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#179

Post by Grangar »

rdruxn wrote: post #166

I often have trouble explaining to people why this is problematic. I encounter the "I've got nothing to hide" or "Who cares if I get ads that I'm more interested in?" arguments. What do you say to those people?

Monday's episode of the Daily did a pretty good job with this. It opens you up to a myriad of ways for blackmailing or other nasty things through correlation attacks. The data itself is for sale and anyone with the money for it can use it however they want. Hypothetically you could make it as extreme as you want, with what's available now the following could happen with just your location data correlated with your work or home address:

Your insurance company will increase your premium if they see you're often out late at night.

Your employer could see if you use a vacation day to, possibly, apply at a competitor without him knowing it.

Workers at a nuclear powerplant might get approached by foreign actors intercepting their commute.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#180

Post by acct1771 »

avgDev wrote: post #156
ja1215 wrote: post #114

Freakonomics did an episode not too long ago with the new CEO of Ford. The guy was practically salivating at the mouth about all the data new vehicles will be collecting and how Ford could potentially monetize it all. Scary times ahead.

It is a smart business move as there is money to be made. Insurance companies did it first by offering dongles that you can plug into your OBDII that would basically feed your driving data back to them. I agree that it is scary and just feels not right. General population is so ignorant these days that most honestly don't care. They will just accept these things. This data will be valuable to insurance companies, gov…

That's a very bad heuristic to use for whether something's a good business decision...
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