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Facial recognition: It’s time for action

blogs.microsoft.com

171–180 of 281 posts

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#172

This is the first instance I've seen of the tech industry calling for regulation. I admire this and the idea that people running a corporation can understand that despite their best intentions, in the long run the corporation will act to maximize profit via legal means, even if an action is not in the best interest of society. And so in some cases we need to make certain things illegal. I would love to see a company…

It's very strategic on Microsoft's part.

They aren't the industry leader, so leading the conversation on regulation helps them to impact the market leader.

It also let's them steer the conversation on regulation before it becomes a conversation occurring outside their control/influence.

Self-regulation is EXTREMELY common for both those reasons in the corporate world. It also never actually works as well as independent regulation, and when there are issues in independent regulation, it frequently occurs as a result of that independence being undermined/corrupted by revolving doors/lobbying/etc.

It's a nice press release, and smart on Microsoft's part, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's not in their self-interest to be doing this. To date, I don't think I can recall any instance of a public corporation acting against its own self-interest for moral reasons.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#173
post #172

This is the first instance I've seen of the tech industry calling for regulation. I admire this and the idea that people running a corporation can understand that despite their best intentions, in the long run the corporation will act to maximize profit via legal means, even if an action is not in the best interest of society. And so in some cases we need to make certain things illegal. I would love to see a company…

It's very strategic on Microsoft's part. They aren't the industry leader, so leading the conversation on regulation helps them to impact the market leader. It also let's them steer the conversation on regulation before it becomes a conversation occurring outside their control/influence. Self-regulation is EXTREMELY common for both those reasons in the corporate world. It also never actually works as well as independe…

> It's very strategic on Microsoft's part. They aren't the industry leader, so leading the conversation on regulation helps them to impact the market leader.

On the other hand, if Microsoft is sincerely worried about this technology (and potential negative impact it may have on it's image just like Amazon a few months ago), then it makes sense they would be lagging behind as they would be more concerned about assigning resources and releasing product?

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#176

This is a laudable first step in advocacy for real regulation of a technology that already has huge impacts on privacy and civil society. I was in the room for one of the meetings with Microsoft's senior leadership as a representative of a Seattle-based civil liberties group. While our coalition would like to see MS go further, it was quite clear that they take their commitment to corporate responsibility and ethics…

> He also denied that Amazon had any responsibility for the negative impacts of their AI/ML technologies

I find it downright scary when corporations take shortsighted and immoral positions like that. It is historically very clear there are consequences to our work as engineers and companies developing and supplying technology. It is very important to know that we share responsibility for how our work is used starting from the moment we reasonably understand how it is being used.

I mean, there are engineers who designed and built the gas chambers in the second world war. Were they responsible for the murders that were committed with it? Or is only the one turning the wheels responsible? Or the one who was in command? Or his boss higher up? I think everyone who knew was partly responsible, including the engineers.

It also has also been proven that is is really easy to coerce people (including engineers) into doing immoral things. It is easy to deny any responsibility when it is someone else telling/ordering you to do things. But it does not clear you of responsibility for your actions.

I think Microsoft is doing the right thing now, they have come to realize their technology can easily be abused in ways they did not foresee (this probably already happened), and they try to take responsibility by speaking out and lobbying to get legislation in place to avoid abuse, but without destroying the market opportunity.

Tragically, I expect several things:

- There will be no government legislation / "red tape", certainly not from the current US government.

- The race to the bottom they are afraid of will happen anyway, and Microsoft gets to choose whether they want to be part of it or not. Their morals (now out in the open) will work against their chances of market success.

- What Microsoft asks for is still far to weak. They want to take the moral high-ground, but they also want to sell their stuff. For instance, they ask for clear signage in stores that facial recognition is being used, so that customers can choose not to enter the store. Do they really think this will provide good privacy protection? Business will simply strong-arm consumers into consent by denying service if they don't, just like they did with the old EU privacy directive (cookie law).

- In the EU, GDPR is already providing consumer protection against facial recognition, mostly better that what Microsoft is asking for. Business in EU are now effectively prohibited from using it, but US based startups will use their lead to "disrupt" the market and introduce it here anyway.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#177
post #112
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This stands in stark contrast to the meeting I attended on Tuesday with Amazon's general counsel regarding their Rekognition service. And I think that cuts to the core of this: this is an anti-Amazon move. Nonetheless, I do also think it's a pro-consumer, pro-civil liberties stance. It's also a recognition that the tide is turning with respect to consumers and privacy; here, Microsoft is getting ahead of this chang…

I'm not convinced the US will be passing much of anything in the next two-years. Passing pro-privacy regulation? Seems very unlikely to me. Microsoft should engage with Canada and the EU where technology/privacy regulation is gaining traction.

The incoming California legislature is over 3/4ths Democratic so while the Federal gridlock may not make any progress, there could be some movement closer to home that at least gets the industry to prepare for the inevitable.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#178

Biometrics are creeping into everyday life. One of my local gyms this week switched to requiring fingerprints or you were barred from access. Another local gym uses facial recognition for entrance, although you can choose to have a member card instead if you ask for it directly, they don't list it as an option. Thankfully in the EU we have GDPR. It considers biometrics as a similar sensitivity to medical data, so unl…

Biometrics are the future equivalent of using the same password everywhere.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#179
post #112
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This stands in stark contrast to the meeting I attended on Tuesday with Amazon's general counsel regarding their Rekognition service. And I think that cuts to the core of this: this is an anti-Amazon move. Nonetheless, I do also think it's a pro-consumer, pro-civil liberties stance. It's also a recognition that the tide is turning with respect to consumers and privacy; here, Microsoft is getting ahead of this chang…

I'm not convinced the US will be passing much of anything in the next two-years. Passing pro-privacy regulation? Seems very unlikely to me. Microsoft should engage with Canada and the EU where technology/privacy regulation is gaining traction.

Could you elaborate on the privacy regulation that is gaining traction in Canada?

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#180
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify: Amazon's "main business" is AWS, not their online store. For many years their store operated at a loss. Don't get me wrong, amazon.com is a HUGE business, but it's not Bezos' breadwinner. https://www.zdnet.com/article/all-of-amazons-2017-operating-...

It only operated at a loss because they were plowing massive amounts of money into their delivery infrastructure. Revenue matters more than net income

Also because they are trying to estabilish monopoly. Amazon's long term plan is to kill every other big retailer.
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