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Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

nytimes.com

171–180 of 185 posts

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earth's atmosphere doesn't care about per-capita emissions - it just cares about absolute concentrations of greenhouse gases. If you want to solve the problem, largest (in absolute terms - not per capita) emitters need to cut back. Somewhere in the world one human emits more CO2 per capita than everyone else in the world. If they stop emitting, we haven't solved anything.

That person sounds Despicable. :)

Damn, downvoted for a lighthearted Gru joke :(. I mean, c'mon, have you seen the 'car' that Gru drives? Aside from being fictional, he sure does look like he has a claim to the most carbon emitted by a single individual.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#172

It seems to me we are truly and globally fucked: 1. There were just massive protests and riots in France (a relatively ecologically-aware country) due to an increase in the diesel tax of about 8 cents a liter meant to help wean the country off carbon. As a result of the riots, the tax was cancelled. 2. Current US administration is going 180 degrees in the other direction, i.e. doing everything it can to support coal.…

Protesters are not protesting just the taxes on fuel. They protest the fact that taxing fuel is not the solution if you don't provide an alternative mode of transport. Some people live far from the cities, Should they be the ones paying for everybody else and let the people living in the cities without a car not pay their fair share of the burden? The problem with taxing the diesel is that you are telling people that…

How is a tax on a bad behavior akin to calling someone a criminal? Their choice to have a diesel car and live where they did means they are poisoning the atmosphere for the rest of us. That's a negative externality to their behavior that is not being accounted for. Should they get to pollute the air for free? If we're so worried about the poor, why not levy new taxes on the rich with super yachts and palatial estates? Why not use a revenue-neutral carbon tax with a progressive rebate of some kind. Let's not destroy our atmosphere to support poor polluting individuals. Let's protect our atmosphere and reward poor individuals whose choices are better for our planet, biosphere, and the future wars and devastation bad behaviors like this will surely lead to.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Population density (people/km2) - EU: 116 - US: 33 Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...

And Sweden has a density of 23 while having lower carbon emissions than the EU average. The US's problems include relatively heavy coal (30% still) and a heavy automobile culture (due to low density of cities, not the country)

We can't conclude the US's low density cities are entirely to blame for a heavy automobile culture. The auto companies are pumping out gas guzzlers by the millions, people are buying souped-up F-150's to drive solo to their office job, they're buying shiny Escalades to take their chihuhua to the groomer, it's not just about density. There's a real problem with the consumers themselves demanding these polluting products, with around 40% of the country thinking climate change is no big deal, and with the corporations all bowing down to this carbon culture.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#174

It's hard for me to take climate science seriously when 1. We know of the state of crisis that all other soft sciences are in (p-value abuse, publish or perish, institutional bias, replication crisis) [3] 2. We know that the earth has been substantially warmer in the past (with accompanyingly higher CO2 levels) and life thrived [2] 3. We know that we've been coming out of an ice age since long before the industrial r…

It's hard for me to take your comment seriously when you're a layman dismissing the findings of thousands of highly trained scientists. The scary reality is that views like yours are not uncommon amongst the Fox News crowd, meanwhile IF you are wrong and the 1000's of climate experts are correct, we are headed for a global catastrophe. So, there is really very little benefit to your viewpoint, and very little from qualified individuals to support its skepticism.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#175

How is it the string "corporat*" only shows up twice (in the same comment) in all these (as of writing) 103 comments.

I checked it out 17 hours later, yours is the third mention. Compa* is not much better.

What do we do nategri? Hard not to feel hopeless about it all.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your argument, but the people living in rural areas are bigger contributors to pollution since they tend to drive more and live in single family dwellings. Why shouldn’t the actual road users pay the cost of using the road? I agree any industry using fuel should pay an equal tax though.

I think you're confusing rural areas and suburban areas. It's the suburban wastelands that are saturated with families of daily-driven automobiles and commuters. I live in a rural area, most of my neighbors only drive to a grocery store ~10 miles away once a week. The rest of the time is spent at home. Then on the weekends a bunch of city folks blast through disrupting everything on their way to/from Las Vegas and/or…

I live in a rural area, I love it when I go days at a time without leaving. I'm very strategic about my trips into town, and with few exceptions won't leave unless I have a minimum of two things I need to do. I definitely did WAY more driving when I lived in the city and the burbs, but out here it's just so inconvenient/time consuming to run into town that I avoid it at all costs.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really depends on where the tipping point is, country X might have a slight advantage but measures like this can widen the gap, then secondary factors like economies of scale kick in. For most markets with behaviors like that you're already doomed, because the other country will figure it out and borrow some money so they can operate temporarily at a loss or convince the government to provide temporary subsidies…

The thing is, nobody can afford a reasonable UBI. US even if they'd put all the military spending into it would do about $200 per month and person. Without a lot of social services, this does not work. Poland cannot afford 200 PLN (about $60) if we put the whole budget into this which is impossible. It gets strained even with child bonus... Those are back off the envelope calculations and an unfixable problem. If you…

A UBI doesn't work like a normal spending program, because it's cash. If you're at the median and to fund the $1000/person UBI you have to pay an additional $1000 in tax, you aren't paying $1000 more, you're net of zero. The above-median person who pays $1200 in tax isn't paying $1200, they're paying $200. The below-median person who pays $800 in tax isn't paying $800, they're receiving $200.

This is also why a cut off saves you nothing. If the person at the 85th percentile would have been paying $2000 in tax and receiving a $1000 UBI, and you eliminate their UBI so that they only pay $1000 in tax, zero real difference has been made to anyone. A phase out only changes anything if the nominal tax reduction it allows goes to a different income level than the people subject to the phase out -- but if that's what you wanted, you could do it by just changing their respective tax rates to begin with. Which is a lot easier to reason about, so that you don't do dumb stuff like impose a 35% UBI phase out plus a 25% marginal tax rate (effectively a 60% marginal tax rate) on middle income people, while charging a lower tax rate to higher income people.

More to the point, the context here is using a carbon tax to fund the UBI, which makes the point succinctly. If the average person is paying $100/month in carbon tax, it funds a $100/person/month UBI. A carbon tax is quite regressive -- more even than sales tax -- but the UBI is at least as anti-regressive, so it cancels. The only difference it makes is to the people with a higher or lower than average carbon footprint, so it gives everyone the incentive to be on the below average side, which is exactly the purpose.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparative advantage has nothing to do with it. The market price of a global commodity has the opportunity costs already priced in. It's the reason more prosperous countries have higher labor costs. If you and some other country are producing food for the same cost (e.g. because you pay more for an hour of labor but have better automation), adding the same cost to each doesn't affect your competitiveness. You both s…

That does not work because most of the food transportation is by ship freight and truck, which have enough range to evade your tax. And the local transport costs are identical between local and export farmer, while local production is more expensive on labor and fuel. The only thing to do is to raise duties on food and... it is risky politically. Alternatively, subsidize much more. Good luck!

> That does not work because most of the food transportation is by ship freight and truck, which have enough range to evade your tax.

Solution: If the carbon tax for the product's production and transportation is not collected by the country of origin, it is collected by customs on import.

> And the local transport costs are identical between local and export farmer, while local production is more expensive on labor and fuel.

If it's more expensive on labor, it was the whole time. If it uses more fuel, discouraging it is the intended outcome.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't explain, but I assume your point is that it's easier to reduce emissions per capita when populations are more dense. E.g. less transportation required.

Yes, its the "we have so much space that we are doomed" argument. If they believe the EU is cheating through higher population density, just move your population closer together?

No one is talking about "cheating".

They are talking about tradeoffs. One tradeoffs of elbow room is longer transit and more emissions.

Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018

#180
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If gas reserves are exploited along with coal reserves, your conjecture holds. If gas reserves are exploited in lieu of coal reserves, it does not. If we exploit all the fossil fuel resources, in currently operating mines and wells, we will blow through the 2 C 'safe' warming budget. Unless for every new fracking well, we shut down a coal mine, the conjecture absolutely holds.

That's exactly what the parent is saying. We're not shutting down coal mines - they're just being made noncompetitive but in the long run that amounts to the same thing.

Opening new coal mines may be uncompetitive. Nobody's stopping work in existing ones.

It does not amount to the same thing. To avoid catastrophic warming, we need to stop all development of new fossil fuel resources, and stop exploitation of some active fossil fuel resources.

We're not doing that. We're not even close to doing that.

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