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Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

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Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#171

Post by benrbray »

briandear wrote: post #74
fourmii wrote: post #50

These scooters and scooter companies seem pretty divisive, especially on HN. I understand they're operating in grey areas, I guess kinda like Uber before them, but they are causing (I think) positive disruption. I personally love these scooters. I'm living in Australia now where we don't have them. But last month I took a 3 week road trip from LAX to DC and back so I could hit cities I hadn't been to before. And in m…

Helmets are important (I always wear one,) however, government ought not force people to wear them. Freedom still should matter. Grown adults should be able to make their own decisions. I support helmet laws for the under 18 crowd, but for grown adults? Too much nanny state for my liking.

Shouldn't your same argument apply to the "under 18 crowd"? Why is it a "nanny state" to force adults to wear helmets but not children and teenagers? Alternatively, shouldn't grown adults be able to make their own decisions about whether their children wear helmets?

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#172

Post by dilap »

dawhizkid wrote: post #30

It's strange that even though SF approved 2 scooter companies to operate that I feel like I rarely see anyone actually use vs what I saw when Bird/Lime were here.

SF didn't want to make BART feel bad by providing actual competent transit options, so we got the joke that is Skip/Scoot.

Seriously, this city has convinced me democracy doesn't work. Maybe China should regime change us.

Edit: stingrae points lack of availability may be the City's fault, rather than Skip/Scoot. No sé -- but for sure the city's intervention took a useful, environmentally friendly transit option and made it non-useful.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#173

Post by baroffoos »

qudat wrote: post #92
sonofaplum wrote: post #47

Full disclosure, I'm anti scooter. People drive them on the sidewalks, leave them in front of my front door, and I genuinely hope that both of these companies, specifically, fail. With that disclosure, was anyone else horrified that the lifespan of these scooters is only 3 months? Are they really removing enough vehicle trips to make these a net positive from an environmental standpoint?

> People drive them on the sidewalks Where else would they drive them? On the road? They would just contribute to the thousands of cyclists that die or are seriously injured every year. If you are suggesting that every electric vehicle be banned because sidewalks are for pedestrians only then I disagree. Streets are for cars only, don't let these fake bike lanes fool you.

All roads without separated tracks for cyclists/scooters should be limited to 30-40km/h

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#175

Post by [deleted] »

jakevn wrote: post #147
L_Rahman wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functionally this is the easiest problem in the world to solve. It's the same solution for scooters and dockless bikeshare. Take two parking spots in each block. Put beacons on the corners or some kind of signaling tape around the whole thing. Only let users drop off rides inside that spot. Bonus points for having non-locking racks to help organize. People get to litter their car on the side of my road, often in the…

People keep bringing up this problem because it's still a problem. If it's so easy to solve, why is it not solved? Cities should simply impound any scooter not properly parked and charge $200 to get it back. Since solving the parking problem is so easy, this will push Bird/Lime into finally solving it.

[deleted]

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#176

Post by plainOldText »

qudat wrote: post #67
umvi wrote: post #3

Remind me again why they are allowed to litter all the public sidewalks and street corners with their scooters? Regulation hasn't caught up yet?

> litter all the public sidewalks Is it really that big of a nuisance? You literally walk around them, I don't see the issue. You should give them a ride one day to "see what all the fuss is about." They really are an incredible idea and allowing them to be "parked" anywhere is one of its main appeals.

So you wouldn’t mind people parking the scooters in front of your house then, since you can just walk around them?

I’ve seen scooters literally blocking entrances and pathways, heck people even take them inside buildings up to the 5th floor; not to mention that at night they emit a high pitched disrupting sound. Some people are plain lazy and highly inconsiderate. We need some rules because some people lack common sense.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#177

Post by knicholes »

solarkraft wrote: post #166
jeffwass wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, the emissions of that consolidated power plant can be better filtered (eg particulates) than the corresponding thousands of disparate engines.

It's also not directly in the city.

This is a big one. I live in Lehi, UT, in a place we call "Utah Valley." It's a bowl surrounded by mountains. When there's an inversion or when there's no storm to blow out the pollution, it sometimes reaches the top of the "worst air quality regions" scale. Moving the pollution to an area outside the bowl is a huge deal for me.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#178

Post by fake-name »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #11
umvi wrote: post #3

Remind me again why they are allowed to litter all the public sidewalks and street corners with their scooters? Regulation hasn't caught up yet?

Why are cars allowed to litter the public roads and park all over the place, taking up a massive amount of space with mostly empty seats and driven around less than 10% of the time?

Because I pay taxes + reg and crap to the DMV yearly to allow it to be on public roads?

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#179

Post by stuart78 »

bb2018 wrote: post #88
fourmii wrote: post #50

These scooters and scooter companies seem pretty divisive, especially on HN. I understand they're operating in grey areas, I guess kinda like Uber before them, but they are causing (I think) positive disruption. I personally love these scooters. I'm living in Australia now where we don't have them. But last month I took a 3 week road trip from LAX to DC and back so I could hit cities I hadn't been to before. And in m…

I could not be more upset that people who have stated progressive goals such as cutting down on fuel and providing cheap public transportation are against these. They are an absolutely great alternative that makes these goals possible without having to completely overhaul city designs. The only externality really seems to be they are parked in random places - but I don't see how that is any different than cars parked…

Cars park in designated spots on streets, they are (generally) not randomly dropped onto sidewalks and parks.

The issue for me is the co-opting of public space for private enterprise in the least considerate way possible. People leave these scooters like litter in parks, sidewalks, and lakes.

You could object that this is an overly precious perspective, but I would counter that similar startups (ZipCar most notably) have solved this by contemplating the logistical implications from the get go.

I personally would not object the assigning some percentage of parking spots in neighborhoods as designated parking for shares, and would hope such a contract will emerge.

I certainly understand the dockless advantage here, but the result for those of us who don't use them is garbage some random company feels entitled to clutter up the sidewalks with.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#180

Post by necubi »

jakevn wrote: post #147
L_Rahman wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functionally this is the easiest problem in the world to solve. It's the same solution for scooters and dockless bikeshare. Take two parking spots in each block. Put beacons on the corners or some kind of signaling tape around the whole thing. Only let users drop off rides inside that spot. Bonus points for having non-locking racks to help organize. People get to litter their car on the side of my road, often in the…

People keep bringing up this problem because it's still a problem. If it's so easy to solve, why is it not solved? Cities should simply impound any scooter not properly parked and charge $200 to get it back. Since solving the parking problem is so easy, this will push Bird/Lime into finally solving it.

It's not easy to solve because people go ballistic if you suggest removing even a single parking space. See for example the 30+ year struggle to develop bus rapid transit on Geary in SF [0], or the effort Bay Area Bikeshare has to go through to get each and every dock approved by the city [1].

Fundamentally the problem is that car-owners currently receive an enormous subsidy in the form of cheap or free street parking and they jealously guard that privilege, even in supposedly progressive cities like San Francisco.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geary_Bus_Rapid_Transit [1] https://www.thebaycitybeacon.com/politics/dude-where-s-my-bi...

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