NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job • Hacker News Board

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#171

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:40 PM UTC

marricks wrote: post #53

rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

Doesn’t NYC have a housing crisis already? I’m not sure they need a worse one coupled with the gentrifying forces of thousands of tech employees moving in. $1.5 billion in housing or just really anything to help people who already live there is what should happen.

No, NYC doesn't have a housing crisis. Rents are certainly higher in NYC than the average for the nation, but there are plenty of relatively affordable areas within an hour's commute of downtown, and the only transportation cost you'd pay is $116.50/month for a MetroCard. Subtract out all the substantial costs of paying for an automobile and NYC can even compare favorably in cost of living to some other cities that have less rent but still effectively require car ownership.

Also, NYC doesn't have nearly as much of a NIMBY problem as many other American cities. We continue to build lots of housing here.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#172

Post by jorblumesea » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:41 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #146

edoo wrote: post #56

Going to New York is a political move. They could have set up in the midwest, paid everyone 75% as much as the going rate in NY or silicon valley, and the employees would have 50% more expendable income than they are used to. This wasn't for the employees.

> They could have set up in the midwest, paid everyone 75% as much as the going rate in NY or silicon valley, and the employees would have 50% more expendable income than they are used to. This wasn't for the employees. SDE's in Detroit, Madison, and Twin Cities are paid exactly the same as the SDEs in Seattle.

That is hardly true except for a small select few. Where are you getting your numbers?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#173

Post by zeko1195 » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:41 PM UTC

I wonder what would make people happy. Amazon should have opened their HQ2 in Bangalore. They wouldn't face this much criticism there and people would welcome it.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#174

Post by tim333 » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:42 PM UTC

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #154

As a born and long time NYC resident... I am so unhappy about this, I cannot even tell you. Why can't we put $2B in the MTA's pocket? Or schools? Or healthcare? Or affordable housing? Or almost anything other than Bezos's pocket? I did vote against Cuomo even as I helped flip our one NYC Republican district to Democrat, so I did everything I could as a voter. We need a law/constitutional amendment preventing this sor…

They are not putting $2bn into Bezos's pocket. Rather they are receiving several times that in new tax revenue and maybe out of that they will put some into the MTA or similar.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#175

Post by jondubois » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:43 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #103

jondubois wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This giveaway is a goddamm travesty. How about instead, Cuomo gives me and any other startup founder who's been in Brooklyn or Queens for decades $48,000 for every job we've created and we tell Amazon to go fuck themselves. So true. The rent in NYC is already very high. What kind of lifestyle can a blue collar worker afford in NYC? Obviously the only winners here are corrupt politicians and greedy Amazon execs. Th…

> Obviously the only winners here are corrupt politicians and greedy Amazon execs. They should all be jailed. You can dislike tax incentives if you want to, but the hyperbole is so over the top it becomes radical, divisive, noise. We need less of this in these discussions.

The division is real and worsening. It's not an imaginary concept that we can choose not to discuss.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#176

Post by seatdrummer » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:44 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #146

edoo wrote: post #56

Going to New York is a political move. They could have set up in the midwest, paid everyone 75% as much as the going rate in NY or silicon valley, and the employees would have 50% more expendable income than they are used to. This wasn't for the employees.

> They could have set up in the midwest, paid everyone 75% as much as the going rate in NY or silicon valley, and the employees would have 50% more expendable income than they are used to. This wasn't for the employees. SDE's in Detroit, Madison, and Twin Cities are paid exactly the same as the SDEs in Seattle.

They will match Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon/Google's 110k salary + bonus + stock that you can get in Seattle (As a college grad)?

Even smaller firms are giving away jobs for 150k salary for just a couple years of experience.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#177

Post by harryh » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:45 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #149

NoblePublius wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the opposite. The tax gains out number the tax breaks 3 to 1. Each one of these $150k jobs will net NY state $13.8k of income tax per year and (at least) $2500 of sales tax. The tax break per job is $4800 per year (the $48k figure you may have seen is over ten years).

That's fair, but how much of that will go towards compensating people who will be driven out of north/west Queens and north Brooklyn as a result of rising rents?

Just let people build more housing so rents don't rise.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#178

Post by intopieces » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:47 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #149

NoblePublius wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the opposite. The tax gains out number the tax breaks 3 to 1. Each one of these $150k jobs will net NY state $13.8k of income tax per year and (at least) $2500 of sales tax. The tax break per job is $4800 per year (the $48k figure you may have seen is over ten years).

That's fair, but how much of that will go towards compensating people who will be driven out of north/west Queens and north Brooklyn as a result of rising rents?

Why should they be compensated for this? Why are those individuals living in that place a status quo that ought to be maintained?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#179

Post by jopsen » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:48 PM UTC

NoblePublius wrote: post #138

chiefalchemist wrote: post #131

Let's be clear, the free market this is not. It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild. It's one thing for to use taxpayer monies to create jobs and job opportunity (i.e., education). That's a reasonable expectation within the scope of gov's governing. However, it's another thing for gov to buy jobs - and thus votes - by effectively subsidizing some mega-corporation. If Amazon needs money, that's what…

Literally the opposite. The tax gains out number the tax breaks 3 to 1. Each one of these $150k jobs will net NY state $13.8k of income tax per year and (at least) $2500 of sales tax. The tax break per job is $4800 per year (the $48k figure you may have seen is over ten years).

It's still a race to the bottom. Attracting businesses with tax-exempts is a zero-sum game.

In the EU we have rules against things like this. As it's considered anti-competitive behavior.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#180

Post by chiefalchemist » Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 11:48 PM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #166

chiefalchemist wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gains? From more road repair? Higher housing costs (read: more welfare state). Other services? Etc. Etc. Etc. You're making it sound like there's only upside. Regardless, the gov should not be in the job buying biz. My gawd, they struggle to govern, and that's their job. Pockets are being lined - once again - at the expense of the tax payers. "Each one of these $150k jobs..." Pardon me, I know this type of reply is f…

> Regardless, the gov should not be in the job buying biz Says you. I think they do a better job buying that biz than many of the other biz's they buy with public funds. If you want to see pockets being lined, look to things that don't have returns on investment or are poorly managed in real corrupt ways (ala many public pension plans). Not comparing dollar spent to dollar spent of tax money compared to benefits make…

The gov's job is to govern. Period. How about we let it get that right before it starts branching off into things it's has little or no expertise in.

Again. The gov created the housing bubble __and__ the student loan bubble. I don't say they should be in the job buying biz. __The Gov__ has said that. Whether you're listening or not is up to you.