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Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

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Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#171

Post by danenania »

elejo wrote: post #168
danenania wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of fairness, why exactly should we have more concern about the job prospects of someone who happens by random chance to be born on one side of a border than someone who happens to be born on the other? If anything, isn’t it less fair if the person who previously lucked into being born in the wealthier country gets the job? My point isn’t to diminish the very real problems facing the US working class. I just…

Being born here or there is an act of random chance. The fact that some countries are developed while others aren't is not random chance. Especially in the new world where all countries have had exactly the same amount of time to develop.

What does that have to do with anything?

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#172

Post by lambdadmitry »

ElBarto wrote: post #159
makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

> Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. This is a common and interesting sarcasm. It is interesting because the law is indeed that drivers should get a ticket every time they break the speed limit (or for any other driving offence). These technologies enable the law to be applied absolutely for the first time. The…

I would also add that that particular sarcasm is deeply American. I've never seen it in the UK (yet) where these cameras are deployed and people generally obey the speed limit.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#173

Post by snarfybarfy »

durkie wrote: post #102
makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

This was something that came up shortly after the Snowden documents were released. I don't remember who made the point (maybe Moxie Marlinspike), but they pointed out how important it is to be able to break the law. That breaking the law is an vital means of effecting change in the US: kids smoke pot illegally and grow up to be adults that push to legalize it. Gay people are more and more open and successfully push f…

And what kind of right would breaking the speed limit push that citizens could possible want to have changed?

I am all for hardcoded speed limits. Why sell cars that can go faster than $MaxSpeedInYourCountry ???

Other than that I think you made a good point.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#174

Post by ionised »

rexpop wrote: post #150
mc32 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not work in states like the PRC or Russia. Indeed, in order to live and go on day-to-day, you must break the law. And people do. But, then when the state wants you, they will selectively enforce the law. That's how it works. Let people break the law, who cares, but when we need to arrest them, lo and behold, look, they've broken several laws!

Is there a word for this specific legal entrapment?

Injustice?

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#175

Post by lambdadmitry »

makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

Re: cars: that's a very interesting and deeply American viewpoint. It also smells of rationalization, because the talk of "extra 10mph don't matter" is clearly nonsense and I expect most people here realize that V squared in kinetic energy formula makes 10mph a big deal. So the question becomes — what exactly are you trying to rationalize? Because lower speeds most definitely make people safer.

Not only that, but lowered (and observed) speed limit also helps the environment and public health by encouraging people to cycle. Strictly controlled 20mph speed limit in London is probably the most important reason I like cycling here.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#176

Post by passwd »

rexpop wrote: post #150
mc32 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not work in states like the PRC or Russia. Indeed, in order to live and go on day-to-day, you must break the law. And people do. But, then when the state wants you, they will selectively enforce the law. That's how it works. Let people break the law, who cares, but when we need to arrest them, lo and behold, look, they've broken several laws!

Is there a word for this specific legal entrapment?

Future.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#177

Post by therein »

rexpop wrote: post #150
mc32 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not work in states like the PRC or Russia. Indeed, in order to live and go on day-to-day, you must break the law. And people do. But, then when the state wants you, they will selectively enforce the law. That's how it works. Let people break the law, who cares, but when we need to arrest them, lo and behold, look, they've broken several laws!

Is there a word for this specific legal entrapment?

It's called selective enforcement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_enforcement

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#178

Post by dsfyu404ed »

snarfybarfy wrote: post #169
makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

While I agree with your general point, I have to take objection to your car analogy. Whether a car is travelling at 30 or 40mph makes a huge difference. Kinetic energy is the square of the velocity and it also affects reaction time: Total stopping distance (reaction time + braking distance): @30mph = 44 feet + 43 feet = 87 feet @40mph = 59 feet + 76 feet = 135 feet Which means that chances are fairly good if you hit…

This is wrong. Kinetic energy is not what kills you. Force is not what kills you (the human body can handle triple digit G forces for a short time). Hitting things in the cabin is what kills you. The only way kinetic energy is related is that it also happens to increase with speed.

Using kinetic energy to imply that lethality goes up exponentially with speed is misleading at best.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#179

Post by arvinsim »

crististm wrote: post #136
FilterSweep wrote: post #23

Yikes. I’ve heard of some American citizens being mistaken for illegal immigrants and being detained with no recuse[0], I could only imagine how bad it could get if the machine errors. [0] https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/ice-wrongfully-detained-nearly...

According to some of my team mates, a computer is never wrong. And they would gladly replace the justice system with AI ones. They program computers and they should know better but I am lost wondering at what level they are thinking to even go down this road.

AI does not remove bias since AI will reflect the biases of their creators

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#180

Post by tertius »

snarfybarfy wrote: post #173
durkie wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was something that came up shortly after the Snowden documents were released. I don't remember who made the point (maybe Moxie Marlinspike), but they pointed out how important it is to be able to break the law. That breaking the law is an vital means of effecting change in the US: kids smoke pot illegally and grow up to be adults that push to legalize it. Gay people are more and more open and successfully push f…

And what kind of right would breaking the speed limit push that citizens could possible want to have changed? I am all for hardcoded speed limits. Why sell cars that can go faster than $MaxSpeedInYourCountry ??? Other than that I think you made a good point.

I'm personally for speed limits and adherence to them, but not capping speeds at the speed limits (and I'm not talking about 150 MPH caps that you find in UK/EU) has edge cases that could be argued like overtaking.
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