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Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

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Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#171

Post by logfromblammo »

maxxxxx wrote: post #159
logfromblammo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot abridge freedom of expression without an amendment. Nor can you abridge freedom of computation. You should perhaps instead endeavor to strike down anti-mask laws as being contrary to existing freedoms. The logical counter to automated facial recognition technology is facial concealment practices. It is the least harmful to liberty. Alternatively, we could all wear--with our masks on--t-shirts with other pe…

What's wrong with an amendment? I don't want to live in a world where I have to wear a face mask to get some privacy. And they will probably soon not even need faces but recognize you from your height and the way you walk.

Nothing, in theory, but I don't think any amendment can get enough legislature votes to pass and be ratified right now, and the Powers That Be are absolutely terrified of what might come out of a Constitutional Convention. Anything could happen: gun control, equal rights for women, gay marriage, abortion rights, a requirement that presidents must divest all businesses and show tax returns prior to inauguration, right to strong encryption without back doors or key escrow, technology privacy and personal data ownership... anything.

So then we'll need masks and privacy-enhancing shoes.

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#172

Post by sitkack »

dsl wrote: post #126
sitkack wrote: post #81

The majority of people who I know who have all encompassing security systems are conservative and xenophobic. This system is ripe for abuse by racists and racist organizations. When private camera systems feed into state power, some very bad things are setup to occur.

You should really expand your circle of friends beyond conservatives and xenophobics. Most of the people I know who have cameras use them to make sure their kids get home safe on time, or keep an eye on the dog in the backyard.

That is an uncharitable, low-comprehension reading of my first sentence. Didn't say they were friends, and the phrase "all encompassing", isn't for the folks looking after the dog.

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#173

Post by [deleted] »

lostsock wrote: post #160
pavel_lishin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very different, because a) the police no longer have to bother to ask as long as the camera's owner has opted in, therefore this can scale much more quickly, b) the police can offload "assessments" to some neural network, and c) as far as I'm aware, you may not be able to control or even be aware of which footage is viewed by the police. The police absolutely do not have a sufficient reason to know every pers…

That's just not true. The police can send a request to certain cameras recording at certain times with an explination of why they want that video. The owner then gets notified of the requet and can grant or deny it.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#174

Post by pavel_lishin »

lostsock wrote: post #160
pavel_lishin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very different, because a) the police no longer have to bother to ask as long as the camera's owner has opted in, therefore this can scale much more quickly, b) the police can offload "assessments" to some neural network, and c) as far as I'm aware, you may not be able to control or even be aware of which footage is viewed by the police. The police absolutely do not have a sufficient reason to know every pers…

That's just not true. The police can send a request to certain cameras recording at certain times with an explination of why they want that video. The owner then gets notified of the requet and can grant or deny it.

Interesting, you're right.

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#175

Post by ringolet »

balls187 wrote: post #103
joering2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no encryption. There is no 2FA. There is no legal protection for privacy of citizens face's caught in these cameras and added to their facial recognition algorithms. Yes and no lawsuit will be won either. Every judge will strike it based on being in public assumption of lack of privacy. If you walk on public street, don't assume your privacy is protected :(

These are cameras installed in doorbells on private property, there wouldn't be any expectation of privacy.

Except that my house is across the street and the Ring camera points into my windows and can record my private actions inside my own home without my permission.

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#176

Post by ringolet »

reaperducer wrote: post #145
ndespres wrote: post #87

I can not imagine developing this and thinking that it is Good. This type of product and platform completely ignores the reality of how it will be used and how police behave in American society. In the demo video, their example has someone sharing a photo of "suspicious people" walking around outside their house, and has neighbors commenting "oh no!" on it. Now the police are alerted to this "crime" which may not eve…

Anyone who has an account on NextDoor knows the hysteria around a minor event like a car that someone doesn't recognize being in the neighborhood. Happened to me. I saw myself in a Nextdoor video as someone "suspicious," followed pleas from the homeowner and a chorus of cabbageheads for more videos from anyone living nearby so they could identify the car I drive. That's what I get for walking through a public park th…

Bad news, then. I live in the city of Los Angeles, and our NextDoor is just as bad.

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#177

Post by balls187 »

ringolet wrote: post #175
balls187 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are cameras installed in doorbells on private property, there wouldn't be any expectation of privacy.

Except that my house is across the street and the Ring camera points into my windows and can record my private actions inside my own home without my permission.

Are you in the US, do you live on a public street, and does your state have Peeping Tom laws?

It's not cut and dry, but if what you're doing is in clear view of a public street, then it's unlikely you will win an argument based on having a reasonable expectation of privacy.

You of course can bring this argument in front of the courts, but my non-legal opinion is that you wouldn't prevail.

There are a few contrived examples:

A cop walks by and sees you assault someone in your house through the window. That's enough PC to enter without a warrant. You can try to argue your privacy was violated and , but it was in clear view of the public.

You perform a lewd act in your home in front of the window, that is in clear view of a school bus stop where children are awaiting the bus. It would be doubtful that you could use privacy as a defense against indecent exposure laws.

If the ring camera was somehow zoomed in to ONLY film your actions through the window, then perhaps you may have cause.

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#178

Post by _r3e4 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #60
_r3e4 wrote: post #2

I found this dropbox link to Ring's marketing video for Police Departments to use their smart video cameras for mass surveillance. This was made before Amazon acquired them. At the end of the demo the CEO states that their facial recognition search feature will be available soon. This software is made in Ukraine and the hardware is manufactured in China. There was no private company contract bid - Ring is just giving…

> There is no encryption. There is no 2FA. There is no legal protection for privacy of citizens face's caught in these cameras and added to their facial recognition algorithms. Those are some interesting claims. Where is this information sourced from?

the engineering team

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#179

Post by joering2 »

balls187 wrote: post #105
joering2 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great example +1; however in this example cops assumed Mr. Vargas to commit crime and hence setup cam to watch aka surveillance his property 24/7. Very difference from situation where average citizens records their front yard 24/7 not expecting or assuming a crime will occur, and then having that video being obtained when the crime happens. In other words, this case is about active surveillance, versus Ring cams are…

Ring is marketed as a security camera, and one of it's primary use cases is providing video recording in the event of a crime.

Exactly! Not marketed as a tool to surveillance your neighbor 24/7.

Re: Amazon's Ring Police Portal For Mass Surveillance

#180

Post by MikeCotton45 »

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