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Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

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Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#171

Post by tomatotomato37 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #97
decasia wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I don't think it's likely that government-provided social software would work all that well in the contemporary USA (unless they built it with better security and privacy than they have ever wanted to see in the private sector), but the government can be seen as a version of cooperative funding and it's certainly worth thinking about. I would like it if my local government funde…

I think the bigger problem in the US would be how to deal with free-speech issues. It either has to be moderated (sorry, no free speech here!) or it will be overrun by trolls, spammers, and other evils.

A lot of that could be solved by just only allowing one account per person (no corporate/organizational at all) and requiring your real name, with any trangressions handled through the usual mob rule chaos. Nothing says this has to be a platform for healthy discorse, it just needs to hold well enough to announce block parties and post pictures of your dog

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#172

Post by kopo »

OedipusRex wrote: post #142
osrec wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.

So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.

I like Signal. They don't store much of anything. Code is open. A friend got me onto it by one day going cold turkey off all his other messaging apps. It works. I Have tried that on some of my family.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#173

Post by frio »

decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

https://social.coop/about is just that :). Although I see they've killed their front page and closed registrations for a while.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#174

Post by bizkitgto »

decasia wrote: post #9
decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

My thought about the article is that basically the author has gotten too negative. He is so distracted with attacking the ad-supported social software we have that he gave up thinking about the software we need.

We don't need social media...or software to live happy lives.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#175

Post by bizkitgto »

caymanjim wrote: post #19
binarnosp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need software to socialize. Some tasks of our life can be taken over by software, but others should stay with us. Especially with the advent of AI, engineers are racing to automate everything: from suggesting us new friends, new music, with which dresses we look smart, and so on. Automating everything will cause the atrophying of our skills and we will become a bunch of lonely depressed, smartly dressed user…

Your response is literally a use of software to socialize. Of course we don't "need" it, but that's a meaningless statement. We don't need computers or electricity either. The idea that we're all being duped and manipulated into using something we don't need so that we'll view ads is overblown. It's not false, it's just not a new thing and it's not a problem. Media has been intertwined with market research, ratings,…

> People aren't that stupid. They know what they're trading for these great free products we all use.

I would say the average user has no idea what exactly they are trading for.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#176

Post by bizkitgto »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #27
binarnosp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need software to socialize. Some tasks of our life can be taken over by software, but others should stay with us. Especially with the advent of AI, engineers are racing to automate everything: from suggesting us new friends, new music, with which dresses we look smart, and so on. Automating everything will cause the atrophying of our skills and we will become a bunch of lonely depressed, smartly dressed user…

To some extent yes, but then again, social media is public billboard meets address book. There's nothing in there that fundamentally shouldn't be automated, it's just the sum of those parts that enable a new dimension in social interaction. Also: we don't need software for most things in life. But we like software, as it usually makes things better.

Is software making us better or lazy?

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#177

Post by tomcooks »

rsync wrote: post #103
decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

"The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community" No fees, no development needed, lightweight and has been working for decades : A listserv. Everything else is just ca…

People want candy though

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#178

Post by ensignro2340 »

lazyjones wrote: post #73

I would be interested in his opinion about slapping the user in the face with greyed-out content and a subscription box on top when he tries to follow a link to read this interview. Isn't this a great example for how the digital world doesn't let us do what we intend to and doesn't deliver on its promises?

I'm using uMatrix, so I didn't even notice. At least it's relatively easy to get around the modal and read the interview?

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#179

Post by TeMPOraL »

bizkitgto wrote: post #176
TeMPOraL wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some extent yes, but then again, social media is public billboard meets address book. There's nothing in there that fundamentally shouldn't be automated, it's just the sum of those parts that enable a new dimension in social interaction. Also: we don't need software for most things in life. But we like software, as it usually makes things better.

Is software making us better or lazy ?

Is it laziness, or efficient use of time, which could be put to a more productive use? It's a tricky question.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#180

Post by ilovecaching »

I am of the belief that we are better off trying to connect everyone in the world than going back to living in our community bubbles. I also think that it's too late to change the centralized nature of WWW. That ship sailed two decades ago. So we just need to live in the reality we have and try to incrementally make it better.
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