Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#171

Post by xxs » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:13 PM UTC

mandeepj wrote: post #156

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

Humble tip - You can pause updates for up to 45 days. During this period, you can enable them at your leisure. This is what I do when I'm leaving my computer for an overnight rendering.

Well you can set group policy and disable updates... but yeah not your average user experience. Pretty much I disable updates if I can.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#172

Post by mkl » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:14 PM UTC

mandeepj wrote: post #156

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

Humble tip - You can pause updates for up to 45 days. During this period, you can enable them at your leisure. This is what I do when I'm leaving my computer for an overnight rendering.

It's 35 days for me. There's also a nasty gotcha where I paused updates and then enabled them, and then it wouldn't let me pause again for some fairly long period.

All that is needed to make the system usable is the ability to turn off all automatic restarts; tell me to do it, even nag after a while, just don't ever do it automatically.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#173

Post by diminoten » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:14 PM UTC

alan_n wrote: post #148

So glad now I turned off Window's updates (because no matter what I did they kept installing when they shouldn't have). I have been considering moving to linux for a while now because there's finally good alternatives for some of the apps I use, and I'm definitely going to start the move now. I had all my user folders moved and this could have been me (and my backup drive just died too!). The user folders were actual…

A real Sophie's choice: have your data stolen by hackers because you're vulnerable, or have your data deleted by the patches that secure your system!

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#174

Post by shkkmo » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:16 PM UTC

I have a dual boot machine with windows 10 on a slow platter drive and ubuntu on a very fast SSD. I only ever launch windows to play games... and I hate it. I don't launch windows very often and as soon as I do it starts hammering the disk downloading and processing updates. Even before it tries to actually complete the update, it makes the computer almost unusable for an unpredictable period of time.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#175

Post by gerdesj » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:17 PM UTC

sundvor wrote: post #157

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

It never stops to amaze me how unwilling most people are to explore the latest Win10 options to always defer updates by number of days (eg stay a week behind on feature updates to let others be more on the cutting edge), or even temporarily freeze the windows update service by up to a two digit number of days. If I ever wanted to be sure that no updates took place I'd use the freeze. Switching OS might be a solution,…

I routinely use Linux (Arch, Gentoo, Ubuntu, CentOS, several others) Windows (98 - 10 (yes, really 98), server 2000 to 2016) and I speak quite a few other OS dialects (NetWare and FreeBSD fex).

The worst for updates, by far is Windows 10 and server 2016. I'd better qualify that. Gentoo can take a really long time to crunch through say 1GB of source code if not updated for a few months. Firefox can take an hour or so on its own and LibreOffice is a whopper as well. Older Windows versions, say 2008 R2 can take a good hour some months. NetWare updates need a skilled surgeon (or someone who can read a manual). pfSense (FreeBSD for me) upgrades can be a bit fraught but generally not. However all of those will get you there eventually.

W10 and 2016 are different beasts altogether. They do a pretty decent job of hiding the nitty gritty away from you and I actually like the auto "just do it already" approach and can set "active hours" to tailor the experience. However, it takes bloody ages to run and often needs more than one reboot - sometimes three (ie update, reboot, something doesn't work, reboot, still doesn't work, reboot, now it works).

The error messages you get are awful and generally need forensic analysis elsewhere - a naiive Google will get you to some MS forum and a suggestion to reinstall Windows.

Switching OS is not really a solution but whining about the update experience within potential hearing (HN) of those that might be able to do something about it is a good idea 8)

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#176

Post by xxs » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:18 PM UTC

fermienrico wrote: post #95

capdeck wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you fighting the wind(ows)mills? Linux desktop is in it best shape since its inception. Mint (doesn't siphon), Ubuntu (siphons responsibly) or Manjaro (if you miss rolling updates, but for humans)... Why suffer needlessly?

I have all 3 systems: Mac, Windows and Linux. Most engineering softwares are only and exclusively available on Windows. I’m a Mechanical Engineer. Linux, I use for writing code with open source tools (gcc, clang). Mac, I use for general purpose computing and media consumption.

>Most engineering softwares are only and exclusively available on Windows. I’m a Mechanical Engineer.

Out of curiosity, does it run under Wine or it has some DRM that prevents it?

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#177

Post by pasabagi » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:20 PM UTC

giobox wrote: post #149

vbezhenar wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you care? It works.

The idea that you can take the current state of modern desktop Linux as a consumer OS for the masses* is still just as crazy in 2018 as it always has been in years past. I’m old enough to have seen a generation of Linux reviews proclaiming “this is the one!!” that can be the viable desktop OS for your family’s computers, and it never happens (the marketshare figures speak for themselves). A consumer OS simply cannot…

Who cares? Way more developers and users devote time to improving the Linux experience than Windows or Mac. That's the only way in which popularity really matters. And it shows - when I switch to Windows, my Laptop fans start up and everything feels as slow as a slug. Because at this point, Windows is just bad software - and that's because Microsoft has recognized that the Desktop/PC thing is a declining market - and have reallocated resources accordingly.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#178

Post by albedoa » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:21 PM UTC

jackfoxy wrote: post #166

sundvor wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never stops to amaze me how unwilling most people are to explore the latest Win10 options to always defer updates by number of days (eg stay a week behind on feature updates to let others be more on the cutting edge), or even temporarily freeze the windows update service by up to a two digit number of days. If I ever wanted to be sure that no updates took place I'd use the freeze. Switching OS might be a solution,…

Even deferring updates is not really good about being in your face enough about having a pending update ready, so eventually it's going to update by itself anyway. Regarding switching to Mac, it never ceases to amaze me all of my colleagues who opted for a company Mac when all the productivity tools they need run natively on Windows, and sometimes not on Mac at all. So they set up a Windows partition which is never b…

They regret choosing a Mac? Or they regret that they were offered a Mac by a company whose productivity tools only work on Windows for some reason?

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#179

Post by xxs » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:22 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #98

winrid wrote: post #19

The whole user experience of installing Windows 10 is abysmal. Wife got a new laptop and I watched her to the initial setup. Stupid things like an "enter your pin" dialog that automatically opens another dialog that closes if you hit enter. So you quickly type your pin and hit enter and just see the dialog flash. Or the confusing "remove" button for the fingerprint scanner setup that just removes all of your fingerpr…

My anecdote: I've painlessly ran trough the windows 10 setup at least 3 times now.

Alternatively, you work in a large organization, bake the SSD and clone it to all laptops.

Disabling cortana, xbox, candy whatever, news, telemetry, etc., setting windows not to maximize when dragged... is no fun

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#180

Post by ndesaulniers » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:25 PM UTC

warent wrote: post #118

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

I'm by no means a low-level OS developer but I can't help but wonder, wouldn't it be possible for Windows to partition off part of the disk to copy system-critical files and then quietly stage updates in the partition (all of this with minimal thread priority so that if some other process demands resources/threads, it will pause/defer itself!). When the staged update is complete, it gives you a friendly notification…

> wouldn't it be possible for Windows to partition off part of the disk

This is what ChromeOS and Android do. At least on Android Pixel phones, there's A and B partitions for each of the boot, system, and vendor partitions. The bootloader tracks whether A or B should be booted. Userspace downloads the updates and writes to the opposite-than-booted partition. On reboot, the bootloader boots the latest partition. Downsize is these partitions are now double the size, so less space for the user partition.