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Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

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171–180 of 193 posts

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#171
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how it's worth close to $800 million either. Besides the icky sexualized content, isn't ads to kids illegal in most countries? How are you going to monetize that market? And even if it's legal, how moral is it?

All I could say is that if there were a clear way for monetizing their user base musical.ly would not have been sold for that price. But it is not very relevant to Bytedance's valuation or main businesses either way.

musical.ly never had the same level of success TikTok now has, and it probably hasn’t focused on monetization at the time it was sold. Plus Bytedance owns quite a few apps many of which are extremely popular

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#172
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $75B value and it still faces the most basic question. Makes me feel I don't understand business at all. Business journalism really does a disservice when it pushes the "they have no revenue model" angle for these massively scaling traffic aggregators. It was a bit interesting when this was written of Yahoo, I guess, since we didn't have proof yet that online advertising was a viable business model. In any case, th…

The number is still a bit confusing for an outsider though, no? Twitter is worth 20B. Facebook is worth just five times this and also has Instagram and Whatsapp. Is this worth as much as Instagram which has a huge and wealthy audience?

You're implying that Instagram users are wealthier than twitter users? That's 1) only tangentially relevant to ad income. 2) unsupported. 3) probably wrong

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#173
post #7

> Bytedance now faces questions over when or even how it will start making a profit. $75B value and it still faces the most basic question. Makes me feel I don't understand business at all. Also its main app seems to be musically. I have only heard of it but it seems a little to an app like Dubsmash. Did dubsmash ever make any money? What is the business model for such apps?

抖音(Dou Yin), or Tik Tok, is a huge traffic sucker in China. They went from millions MAU to now 100 millions of DAU in just one year. People are spending like hours on this app alone every day, and it is the perfect platform for commercials as well, could almost go unnoticed if it is well made.

Tik Tok is seriously addictive and the ultimate time killer. Too much so I think the Chinese government is pushing some anti-addiction measure to this platform, as what they did for the online gaming market.

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#174
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB has 1.5B DAU, Twitter - ~150M DAU. Bytedance has ~200M DAU, and about the same revenue as Twitter. So, Bytedance DAU is valued as an FB DAU - probably reflects expectations that it can get to the FB level (ie. 3x) of per-user revenue extraction and not ends up like Twitter/Snap.

Where are the bulk of their users based? I assume China right? Surely the ARPU in China is way less than the USA where FB/Snap/goog/twtr own most of the market.

Tik Tok is mainly videos though, that is huge difference in the price of ads.

And due to various reasons, some from censorship, some from the medium itself and how the company chooses to operates on it, Tik Tok is mainly free of political contents, which makes it less toxic.

Also Tik Tok breaks out in other major Asian market as well, like Japan/S Korea/Taiwan, etc. Those markets are very lucrative.

South Korea[No.4]: https://www.similarweb.com/apps/top/google/store-rank/kr/all...

Japan[No.8]: https://www.similarweb.com/apps/top/apple/store-rank/jp/all/...

Taiwan[No.2]: https://www.similarweb.com/apps/top/google/store-rank/tw/all...

In fact, if you count China, it is most downloaded iOS apps in the WORLD, for the first quarter of 2018:

https://qz.com/1272285/bytedances-music-video-app-douyin-tik...

And Bytedance has other mega apps other than Tik Tok, like Toutiao, which is its own money maker.

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree. When Kevin Rose came out of the blue with Digg, they didn't call him 'Unknown'. It is just how media in the US (and rest of the world is trying to copy them mostly) tries to grab attention. Also, it is unknown to them, but Bytedance has been around for quite some time and covered in the US. Also, it is not like they are not making money. So many things are wrong with how they cover this.

Kevin Rose was a TV host at the time Digg launched. He might not have been well known, but he wasn't unknown.

TV host of show that only geeks watched. :)

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#176
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $75B value and it still faces the most basic question. Makes me feel I don't understand business at all. You understand business, just not the shell-game that's grown up around it.

I truly hope the advertising driven tech industry dies and a general paid service model takes it place. The long term affect adverts have on humans cannot be positive.

[deleted]

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#177

Mostly off topic. Why has China produced most of the serious competition to US software titans? In particular, given that South Korea was way ahead of the rest of the world in cell phone and broadband universality for it's population, why haven't they been the birthplace of any social media or other internet companies that expanded abroad (instead they adopted YouTube and Facebook)?

No technological gap in between China/The West. Open source gives everyone the same levelled playground.

Chinese engineers are cheaper

Their internal competition is fierce.

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#178

Mostly off topic. Why has China produced most of the serious competition to US software titans? In particular, given that South Korea was way ahead of the rest of the world in cell phone and broadband universality for it's population, why haven't they been the birthplace of any social media or other internet companies that expanded abroad (instead they adopted YouTube and Facebook)?

I'm reading AI Superpowers by Kai-Fu Lee (MS Research China, Google China, Sinovation) now - https://aisuperpowers.com/

His version of the story: 1) China's wild-west, copyright ignoring culture forced Chinese entrepreneurs to out work, out hustle, out spend their competitors because there was no IP moat. 3 decades of that environment allowed China to develop many levels of development, management, etc talent. Now they have a large, well educated, experienced, seasoned technical workforce.

2) China's culture, just 2 generations removed from mass starvation and poverty, is very hungry and chases business and money as opposed to Silicon Valley vision startups.

3) American tech companies want to make a product that can be used in all countries, but Chinese tech companies tailored to the distinct behavior of Chinese internet users, most of whom are a) smartphone only, and b) on the internet for the first time, and therefore have very different behaviors. Also, because of no IP protection, they built moats through deep, expensive, messy integration into cities, shops, physical assets, etc, whatever gives them some defensibility. American companies, less willing to adapt their products, were poorly received and outcompeted.

4) China's government (national, state, city) has a system of incentives that can align lots of money, compliance, resources, and attention very quickly. In 2013, the Chinese government announced "mass entrepreneurship" plans, and after AlphaGo's victory in 2016, they made a similar plan to make China an AI superpower. This led to a nationwide flood of venture capital, office space, social perks, etc. They're willing to tolerate inefficiency in order to capture a huge new industry. Contrast with the US, where Republican beat up on Obama and Dems for years because of Solyndra, even though the overall renewal energy stimulus made money.

5) China is huge - its urban population is larger than the entire USA, while South Korea's population is about the same as the US West Coast. So a portion of their labor force can tip the global scales of man-hours in a field.

Also, I believe WeChat is popular outside of China, but not so much in USA/Europe. Alibaba is globally influential in manufacturing and ecommerce.

I'm going deep into Chinese tech, particularly AI, and I'd love to talk more about it.

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#179

Throwaway account since I'm an old-school news editor but why is it that curated news companies like hvper.com or Techmeme haven't received the same amount of backing? I see more value in targeted + quality than random mishmash of AI-collected headlines.

May be because the AI curated headlines are individualised for each user.

Re: Bytedance said to be valued at over $75B in new round

#180

My opinion on the long term potential of China's short video platforms has changed completely in the last three months. Used to be high on it, but now I think it's useful but not to this hyped up level, not even close. The majority of videos on Douyin belong to one of these three categories, 1, girls putting on crazy amount of makeup staring at the camera or lip syncing. The platforms's software are often used to mak…

Another thing I've found is that food videos (food pron) is very well suited for these sort of micro video format.
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