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Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

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Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#171

Post by x220 »

encoderer wrote: post #122
odyssey7 wrote: post #75

Millennials are forced to be more careful, because they're climbing a difficult and important ladder into financial security. Most people I know who aren't looking to marry are just very aware that this is not the right time for them, neither finically nor in relation to achieving their professional goals.

I’m a millennial so I’m sympathetic but this is something I’ve heard a lot about anecdotally without a lot of data behind it. Here are two more anecdotes: My dad graduated in 1976 in the middle of stagflation and had a 12% apr on his first house in the mid 80s. His dad graduated into the recession that stretched between ww2 and Korea. I think we’re too quick to look at generations that have accumulated wealth and acc…

>the recession that stretched between ww2 and Korea

I really don't buy that baby boomers had a tough time. I believe that white men in that time in America had perhaps the most prosperous economy and job opportunities in world history.

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#172

Post by 52-6F-62 »

module0000 wrote: post #147
52-6F-62 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think about this from time-to-time. My partner and I know we couldn't afford children now, though she's constantly ..."noticing the clock ticking". I'd like children some day. But what makes me snicker is it sounds exactly like the beginning of Idiocracy.

Be careful - there is no undo button. A lot of us on the other side encouraging you to have kids can be explained by an old adage..."misery loves company". YMMV.

Heheh.

I don't mind that so much. But I think I've done a good job of convincing myself that there's a certain baseline condition I'd like to be in to start seriously considering it.

We've sadly even waffled enough on getting a dog for,

a) Financial reasons. If we can't take the dog to the office, then we would end up paying the few hundred dollars a month or whatever people charge around here to walk them. (one of my colleagues pays ~$400/month! He must be paid substantially more than I am...)

b) Time. Again, if we can't take it with us then we get a little time after work and some weekends.

c) Space. Living in an apartment feels kind of unfair to the dog. I don't know how some people live in these buildings with a couple of mastiffs or whatever.

Just outlining that felt kind of sad. And if we can't settle on figuring that out yet, then children are further off than I'd like.

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#173

Post by yters »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #130
Zimahl wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weddings became a market to manipulate just like any other. From the rings to the honeymoon, everything has been commoditized, including an entire industry that perpetuates the 'ideal' (magazines, pinterest, etc.). What used to be private, family-only affairs has now morphed into a 'need' to invite 200 or so people you don't know and feed them so they give you gifts.

From https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2501480 "we find evidence that marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the engagement ring and wedding ceremony"

My theory is large expense is a sign of lack of family and social network involvement. Without a strong support network, marriages will run into problems.

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#174

Post by bluGill »

Spivak wrote: post #124
cheeko1234 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most might be a bit of an exaggeration but retail & food service industry definitely changed the way they operate just to avoid providing healthcare. >A June 2016 study determined that 500,000 workers in the retail, hospitality and food service sectors were forced involuntarily into part-time employment as companies sought to circumvent the employer mandate https://www.marketwatch.com/story/businesses-eliminated-hund…

I really have to wonder why this wasn't accounted for in the ACA. Like what business isn't going to decide if the administrative overhead of having more employees is less than the cost of providing healthcare and act accordingly? Would it have been that hard to require health insurance contributions in proportion to the employee's percentage FTE? Then it would actually be cheaper for businesses to hire full-time and…

If we want to do something meaningful we would make it so nobody gets insurance from their employer. I don't like my insurance, in a competitive market the insurance I want would only be slightly cheaper - but I don't actually have that option because I would be throwing $1000/month (nobody will tell me the real numbers, but it is in that range) that my employer contributes away.

Those who can only work fast food will never have it easy, but as you point out making them work less hours isn't going to help them.

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#175

Post by nightski »

detaro wrote: post #115
thedaemon wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cheaper to live with someone and split bills than live alone and pay all of the bills by yourself. So yes, married people have more money in general.

Many people still are living together and splitting bills without being married, so it's not all that relevant to the question.

It's pretty relevant if married people are more likely to be living together and splitting bills, which is probably the case.

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#176

Post by AWildC182 »

x220 wrote: post #166
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/603/

That comic is fake news. I can't find the source, but the Economist made a pretty good graph with good data demonstrating that when you control for certain factors, poor people and people with measured below average IQ definitely are more likely to have children. I saw the graph I'm referring to a couple years ago on the Economist website.

I think you're missing the point of the comic. Yes, it's absolutely possible that you could measure this effect but worrying about it won't help and attempting to "fix" it will almost certainly backfire in hilarious and/or terrifying ways. See China.

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#177

Post by harryh »

gumby wrote: post #155
sulam wrote: post #150

They really buried the lede. There are two things happening here that can arguably be traced to one cause: Educated millennials apparently see marriage as something you do _after_ you've finished establishing yourself. It is a goal, not a given. Uneducated millennials apparently have the _same_ point of view, but they aren't established and therefore they aren't getting married. Given that marriage often means you en…

> Given that marriage often means you end up with the lower of the two credit scores Does anyone actually think this way?? Honestly I can’t imagibe ever thinking financially when I proposed.

Essentially everyone thought this way up until maybe 100 years ago. Marriage was just as much an economic union as for love and companionship.

In many ways it still is whether people acknowledge it or not.

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#178

Post by sdinsn »

ryanobjc wrote: post #170
magic_beans wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course people think this way. It's foolish not to, especially when couples can commit to each other in so many ways other than legal marriage. I'm shocked there's someone on hacker news who doesn't.

A meta comment, this kind of thread is why I don't respect hackernews commenters anymore. It frequently goes like so: - Comment: Something - Reply: But my experience says otherwise, why are you so wrong? There is a persistent lack of ability to see other people's point of view. Surely it is not everyone here, but it's enough such that things get really boring here.

Why are you talking a comment thread so seriously? It sounds like that's your problem.

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#179

Post by bluGill »

magic_beans wrote: post #164
neogodless wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice? Don't have a relatively cheap wedding. Have a _cheap_ wedding. (Do not waste two years of your life making money that you blow on 6 hours of rituals.) Our wedding cost less than $1000 (near Philadelphia, so HCOL area), and is described by friends as "beautiful" and "one of my all-time favorites."

How did you pull that off?

The court house needed $70 for the license. A friend did the ceremony (One benefit of Freedom of religion in the US is there are religions with one belief: people should be married. They will ordain anyone who shared that belief to be a priest to perform marriages for $20, and then help you get certified to perform a marriage in whatever state you want to perform a marriage in). You need two witnesses, and they are traditionally not paid. In short, you need 5 people and $70, and 1 of those 5 needs to do something special that might cost money (but he can do for more friends)

Everything not in the above list is optional. Grandma's backyard is free, or pay for something more if you want. You can invite just the 5, or 10,000 people. You can serve food or not. You can have rain plans or get wet. You can have live music, a dj, a friend with a ipod, or no music. You can have special fancy outfits or whatever you came out of the barn with. You can have photos or not. You can have a nice honeymoon or not.

I set my budget. I stayed within my budget. I didn't have some things most people do. I did some things that most people do not. I spent more on the honeymoon than the wedding and I'm glad I did. Your values and budget will be different, that is your choice.

BTW, for parents I suggest you give a set amount several months in advance and tell the couple "whatever is leftover is for the honeymoon - have you thought about eloping?"

Re: Millennials Are Causing the U.S. Divorce Rate to Plummet

#180

Post by [deleted] »

gumby wrote: post #155
sulam wrote: post #150

They really buried the lede. There are two things happening here that can arguably be traced to one cause: Educated millennials apparently see marriage as something you do _after_ you've finished establishing yourself. It is a goal, not a given. Uneducated millennials apparently have the _same_ point of view, but they aren't established and therefore they aren't getting married. Given that marriage often means you en…

> Given that marriage often means you end up with the lower of the two credit scores Does anyone actually think this way?? Honestly I can’t imagibe ever thinking financially when I proposed.

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