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Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

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Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#171

Post by tjoff »

orev wrote: post #149
kimikelku wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how big the adoption is in the US for nokia "dumb phones", but in Europe they sell really good. The first thing you do when you take them out of the box is to put the battery in. Even if the person at the store does this for you, just by watching you can easly do it yourself. And since iphones are a huge role model, if they implement it others will follow along.

All of the physical mechanisms required to allow a user replaceable battery are fragile and take up valuable space. It’s not a simple matter of just allowing it. It could actually lead to more repairs due to failure of those parts, and you certainly could no longer make the backs out of glass or other exotic materials. They would all have to be plastic.

Nah, we have decades of experience of doing this. And it doesn't really affect size or price either, that was evident back when you had a choice in the matter. It's just that manufacturers would rather sell you a new phone than a new battery.

Shocking, I know...

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#172

Post by saagarjha »

badpun wrote: post #156
grzm wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to provide information about how Apple compares with others in the industry?

I don't have this information. However, IMO the current Apple's approach suits a vendor of $300 phones, not $1000+ ones. If Apple really wanted to be the technologic leader in this field, the gigantic markup and the billions of dollars that they make on phones should be funneled into engineering excellence (stability, security, performance, device longevity) and not gimmicks (face recognition). Unfortunately, it seem…

I'm pretty sure the parent comment wanted you to talk about Android, where vendors ending software support and updates before the phone is even bought is the norm.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#173

Post by copperx »

orev wrote: post #149
kimikelku wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how big the adoption is in the US for nokia "dumb phones", but in Europe they sell really good. The first thing you do when you take them out of the box is to put the battery in. Even if the person at the store does this for you, just by watching you can easly do it yourself. And since iphones are a huge role model, if they implement it others will follow along.

All of the physical mechanisms required to allow a user replaceable battery are fragile and take up valuable space. It’s not a simple matter of just allowing it. It could actually lead to more repairs due to failure of those parts, and you certainly could no longer make the backs out of glass or other exotic materials. They would all have to be plastic.

Even though I hate things made out of plastic, plastic IS the right material for building a phone. Plastic is hard to scratch, has grip, is lightweight, and is hard to break.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#174

Post by saagarjha »

scarface74 wrote: post #95
badpun wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about security fixes to non-newest versions of iOS. Apple just does not do them.

To nitpick actually they have. IOS 6.1.2 came out 6 months after iOS 7 But what unpatched security flaws have been reported in older versions of iOS that would allow an attacker to install a keylogger or otherwise exfiltrate user data?

> But what unpatched security flaws have been reported in older versions of iOS that would allow an attacker to install a keylogger or otherwise exfiltrate user data?

…a jailbreak?

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#175

Post by AstralStorm »

orev wrote: post #149
kimikelku wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how big the adoption is in the US for nokia "dumb phones", but in Europe they sell really good. The first thing you do when you take them out of the box is to put the battery in. Even if the person at the store does this for you, just by watching you can easly do it yourself. And since iphones are a huge role model, if they implement it others will follow along.

All of the physical mechanisms required to allow a user replaceable battery are fragile and take up valuable space. It’s not a simple matter of just allowing it. It could actually lead to more repairs due to failure of those parts, and you certainly could no longer make the backs out of glass or other exotic materials. They would all have to be plastic.

Taking more space, yes. Being fragile, really not.

If Apple wants to make resilient devices they'd start by using materials not as fragile as glass or thin aluminium. Say, differentially hardened steel (incl. plated) or advanced composites. Just like watches.

Then, the only problem is extra space for the battery connector. They could even sell users a prismatic pouch with no plastic shell as the battery.

The actual tricky part is that integrated battery allows better cooling by use of messy thermal compound. You could have a foam thermal pad instead below the battery cover.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#176

Post by saagarjha »

krn wrote: post #117
llampx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As people start keeping their phones longer, they will start preferring phones that are more durable and repairable. Making cars that break after a few thousand miles worked out for GM and Chrysler right up until the Japanese and German competition arrived.

The thing smartphones is, that many people actually do want to replace them every few years for a better camera, a better screen, or for some trending feature-of-the-year, like a fingerprint reader or wireless charging. Aren't most Americans replacing their perfectly working flagship smartphones every 2 years?

I'm assuming that at some point, there will be very few new features to get people to upgrade. I think we're already seeing a slowdown.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#177

Post by ceejayoz »

bfrog wrote: post #150

Phones being disposable isn't going to change, so looking at the annual cost of ownership is really all I care about. If a $1K iphone lasts 5 years vs my $170 android lasting 2 years, its still a better deal to simply spend $170 on the android. Better yet they usually last far more than 2 years, you just don't necessarily have the latest OS, which I mean, seeing as these devices change so little now, who cares?

> Better yet they usually last far more than 2 years, you just don't necessarily have the latest OS, which I mean, seeing as these devices change so little now, who cares?

Security holes care.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#178

Post by AstralStorm »

ceejayoz wrote: post #135
jjoonathan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have gaskets really been forgotten for technical reasons or were they quietly smothered when the planned obsolescence benefits of potting entered the industry's consciousness?

When my kids' lunch container gaskets leak, I have to throw the lunchbox in the wash. When my iPhone's leak, I'm out potentially $1500.

Nah, the modern silicone gaskets will hold waterproof to low pressure even with imperfect seal, and you can detect that with a cheap impedance sensor.

(Obviously telling the user that water proofing is compromised and that they need to retry attaching whatever they tried to attach or replace it.)

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#179

Post by bilbo0s »

CameronBanga wrote: post #165
lentil_soup wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't necessarily have to fix it yourself, though. You could get it serviced by a professional, just like people do with a washing machine or a fridge.

And that happens today every day with the iPhone? There are plenty of professionals, both authorized and unauthorized by Apple, that can do nearly any repair necessary on an iPhone.

I agree with Cameron here, people, for whatever reason, just don't use the repairmen. They're out there. They're everywhere, but the repair shops are nowhere even close to being as busy as the Apple store. (Or even the AT&T store for that matter.)

I think people have been successfully conditioned to view phones as disposable/replaceable. It would take an almost Sisyphean marketing and conditioning effort to change that thinking.

I'm not sure it's possible. But, hey, I suppose Apple's free to try. No harm there I suppose.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#180

Post by archagon »

collyw wrote: post #145
Pamar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not necessarily disagree about the fact that batteries should be easily replaceable. On the other hand, I do not think that Apple's motivation was pure greed: if you make the battery an easily replaceable part you also need to encase it in a shell, and make it robust enough that even untrained users can safely handle these. This means that you have to make it bigger (externally) sacrificing actual internal volum…

Plenty of other manufacturers manage a decent replaceable battery, I don't see why Apple can't.

Other manufacturers tend to also have way bigger phones.
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