Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s still hard to know what this means. For example, all the senior engineers I currently work with are great at telling a story about how they look to hire based on talent, self-awareness, critical thinking, and many soft skills, and that the technical particulars are only incidental guideposts. Then they proceed to ask candidates to derive a card shuffling algorithm on a whiteboard in 30 minutes and fail them from…
> Then they proceed to ask candidates to derive a card shuffling algorithm on a whiteboard in 30 minutes and fail them from the interview if the running time complexity would be too high or if they can’t mathematically prove the result would be a uniform draw from the space of permutations of the cards. I'd actually expect a surprisingly large fraction of programmers to be able to do reasonably OK on that particular…
What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
171–180 of 233 posts
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#172Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#173I've yet to not hire someone under this. (Though I have one person who I would not hire today, but I still do not know how I would have screened for them in the interview.)
Seems like I'm the only one, though. The rest of the comments seem to indicate looking for something deeper.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#174We joke a lot about that after I was hired as a middle aged coder... during interview Boss: "so do you think you can fit in this culture?" Me: "You mean, do I wear skinny jeans and drink kale smoothies? Probably not, but if you want your work done, does culture fit matter when you have a mile long back log?" Boss: "good point, so... How does your schedule look for next week?" it was all history from there.
Over time, I've realize that this view of work/team dynamics is overly unsophisticated. People are all really unique and viewing them as simply work-accomplishing units misses a ton of the nuance in creating a successful team. On one team I worked in, we hired an older coder with bad knees and a couple of kids at home. Everyone in the team got along with him and generally liked him and he got his work done without to…
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#175We joke a lot about that after I was hired as a middle aged coder... during interview Boss: "so do you think you can fit in this culture?" Me: "You mean, do I wear skinny jeans and drink kale smoothies? Probably not, but if you want your work done, does culture fit matter when you have a mile long back log?" Boss: "good point, so... How does your schedule look for next week?" it was all history from there.
Over time, I've realize that this view of work/team dynamics is overly unsophisticated. People are all really unique and viewing them as simply work-accomplishing units misses a ton of the nuance in creating a successful team. On one team I worked in, we hired an older coder with bad knees and a couple of kids at home. Everyone in the team got along with him and generally liked him and he got his work done without to…
To me that sounds like the team was pretty immature and ended up failing the team.
You can still do all of those things and work with people who don't.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Over time, I've realize that this view of work/team dynamics is overly unsophisticated. People are all really unique and viewing them as simply work-accomplishing units misses a ton of the nuance in creating a successful team. On one team I worked in, we hired an older coder with bad knees and a couple of kids at home. Everyone in the team got along with him and generally liked him and he got his work done without to…
I guess I’m an “older coder”, though my knees are doing OK, but never in my life would I have wanted to work at a place where there’s mandatory attendance at ski trips and zip-lining. That sounds utterly awful. Maybe you’re attributing something to age that is just a matter of taste? And maybe that’s not a good way to limit your hiring?
I guess what I'm saying is that many employees want their work to have a social component and will seek out employment that gives them that. So companies that don't include a culture fit criteria can risk alienating those employees. One would hope that a large enough company can use cultural fit as a sorting criteria more so than a filtering criteria. But the narrative that prevails here...cultural fit is just a code word for discrimination...feels too naive and lacking nuance. Human social interaction is complex and seeking to view workers as interchangeable cogs based on their capabilities to do work is much too simplistic. Which is not to say that cultural fit isn't an excuse to discriminate, which it often is. I'm only trying to point out that it's a really complex issue that has no universally correct side or answer. It's almost always situational and there's no blanket policy or rule that you can apply to address the issue. Trying to force companies to be culture-fit-blind causes its own set of problems.
And I say all this as a 40s coder, so I'm sure I'd miss out on a number of positions based on cultural fit.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s really anything that doesn’t match the team’s (or individual interviewer’s) notion of what a good developer looks like. So it could be how you dress, how you talk, even if you are white and male and not over some age threshold. And I suspect much of that is not conscious, which of course makes it difficult to talk about and address.
I got the job I have now while, for lack of a better term, being "visibly trans", the only person of my race on the team, and also well into my 30s. I don't think it'd be possible for me to look more different than I do from my teammates (especially how the team looked when I started - it's grown and become somewhat more diverse since) That said, I do worry about how my presentation will be perceived elsewhere, it co…
Also, people totally get discriminated against for being trans (though I’m glad to hear you didn’t). That seems indisputable to me, so I’m not sure what your point is unless you’re saying that it doesn’t always happen, which, sure it doesn’t.
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#178We joke a lot about that after I was hired as a middle aged coder... during interview Boss: "so do you think you can fit in this culture?" Me: "You mean, do I wear skinny jeans and drink kale smoothies? Probably not, but if you want your work done, does culture fit matter when you have a mile long back log?" Boss: "good point, so... How does your schedule look for next week?" it was all history from there.
Over time, I've realize that this view of work/team dynamics is overly unsophisticated. People are all really unique and viewing them as simply work-accomplishing units misses a ton of the nuance in creating a successful team. On one team I worked in, we hired an older coder with bad knees and a couple of kids at home. Everyone in the team got along with him and generally liked him and he got his work done without to…
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#179My experience about 'culture fit' was that it was a code word for ageism. Sometimes they'd be even more direct if I pushed back. This wasn't at the end of a 45 minute interview, it was in the first five minutes after I'd already passed the technical review. Might not be true in every instance, but I absolutely cringe when I hear that phrase.
My experience about 'culture fit' was that it was a code word for ageism. I've experienced people figuring out my age when looking at my resume, then weirdly warping the questions while accusing me of Googling the answers in response. (Based only on hearing me type. I was scripting a Python script to give the answer.)
Re: What Companies Mean by Culture Fit
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s still hard to know what this means. For example, all the senior engineers I currently work with are great at telling a story about how they look to hire based on talent, self-awareness, critical thinking, and many soft skills, and that the technical particulars are only incidental guideposts. Then they proceed to ask candidates to derive a card shuffling algorithm on a whiteboard in 30 minutes and fail them from…
> Then they proceed to ask candidates to derive a card shuffling algorithm on a whiteboard in 30 minutes and fail them from the interview if the running time complexity would be too high or if they can’t mathematically prove the result would be a uniform draw from the space of permutations of the cards. I'd actually expect a surprisingly large fraction of programmers to be able to do reasonably OK on that particular…
Here's the algorithm, in pseudo code (yes, with 1-based arrays!):
let a = [1, 2, 3, ...., N] # the items to shuffle
for i = 1 to N
j = random_in(1, N)
swap(a[i], a[j])
Imagine that random_in() makes a log of all its return values. In this program every time it is called it returns an integer >= 1 and That means that there are N^N distinct possible traces. Each of these traces is equally likely. We can associate with each of the traces a shuffle, namely the shuffle that results from the run of the program that produced that trace.This gives us a list of N^N shuffles. This list will contain duplicates, because there are only N! distinct shuffles, and N! The shuffle is fair if and only if each possible shuffle occurs the same number of times in the list of N^N shuffles. For it to be even possible for that to happen, we must have N! divides N^N.
But if N > 2, that cannot happen. To show this note that if N! divides N^N, then every divisor of N! must divide N^N. Pick a prime P such that (1) p Can we really always pick such a prime? Yes. If N is divisible by every prime p Note that you cannot save this class of algorithm by doing more passes. Those just change the size of the trace from N^N to N^(kN) for some integer N. Nor can you save it by changing it to pick both indices at random for the swap instead of picking only one at random. That just changes N^N to (N^2)^N = N^(2N). As long as the random number generator is always asked for a number in {1, 2, ..., N} and it is called the same number of times every time the program is run, the trace size is going to be a power of N, and cannot be divide evenly by N!
Now we can see why Fisher-Yates might work. It asks for a random number up to N the first iteration, up to N-1 the second iteration, and so on. That means its trace is N! long. There is no problem dividing N! by N!. Since N!/N! = 1, if we can show that each shuffle is included, that will also show that each is included the same number of times, and hence that Fisher-Yates is fair.
All we have to do now to see that Fisher-Yates is fair is show that each shuffle can be produced by it. Given a desired shuffle, it is easy to construct the trace that results in it, and we are done.