Live data from Hacker News

Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

perens.com

171–180 of 499 posts

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is the below technically illegal? http://phpdao.com/mysql_postgres_oracle_mssql/

I think OP is using the wrong term - breaching terms of contract is not illegal in itself. It just means Oracle will not do any more business with you.

> Oracle will not do any more business with you

Isn't that a blessing?

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#172

My thougt based on the HN headline "Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed" (after having read the article, of course): Doesn't this show that it is time for someone to set up some kind of "ScienceLeaks" website, where scientists can upload research (results, papers, ...) anonymously which they are are not allowed to do legally because of various such "research-restricting" laws. ---…

Or... just have people outside the US do the benchmarking.

These kinds of clauses are likely effectively null, void or unenforcable in any country that has decent consumer protection laws or laws concerning anti-competetive practices.

You also can't just go and write whatever into a document that already has weak legal footing in many places - and especially not after I purchased your defective product. This shit won't hold for a minute in court.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#173
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is Intel will revert the license change soon. It's just too absurd to stay. But if not, I wonder if distros could have two packages, named with appropriate and well-deserved passive-aggressiveness, e.g.: intel-microcode-insecure and intel-microcode-legally-restricted.

And maybe they'll mark benchmarking packages as conflicting with intel-microcode-legally-restricted?

Installing the benchmarking package, or running it, isn't against the license. Providing or publishing (comparative?) numbers while the microcode package is applied would be.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#174

My thougt based on the HN headline "Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed" (after having read the article, of course): Doesn't this show that it is time for someone to set up some kind of "ScienceLeaks" website, where scientists can upload research (results, papers, ...) anonymously which they are are not allowed to do legally because of various such "research-restricting" laws. ---…

Why would the legal risk ever be over?

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how you do signing at all. You just use your private key to sign something, publish the public key for verification, and, when you want to reveal yourself, you just sign "I am X" with that key.

OK, thanks for the correction. Much better, indeed. :-)

No problem! It's a very good strategy, it's what someone who wanted to remain anonymous would use.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#176
post #102
post #95

> Since some similar exploits have been discovered for AMD and ARM CPUs, the answer is probably “no”. But certainly customers are upset. Whats to be upset? Don't update if you are upset. Choose between perf/security. What are the options, anyway? You can be upset that the things are the way they are, however you can't blame Intel/AMD/ARM, etc. You should have been upset if these vulerabilities were known and not fixe…

People are upset because Intel is not allowing people to run benchmarks on their CPUs (the language is so vague that you could argue that running non-CPU benchmarks, or benchmarks for other software unrelated to Intel would violate this license). So you can't really make a "choice between performance/security", because nobody is allowed to publish data that would let you make an informed choice.

Quoted text talks about being upset because of perf, not because of Intel not allowing benchmarks.

Not allowing benchmarks - yeah, agree to that, that is a reason to be dissapointed or upset.

But people throw words around: lawsuits, upset, etc.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#177
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But CPU+FPGA will forever be a tiny niche, right? I don't see any path where mainstream programs get a boost from FPGA.

That depends what you mean by mainstream. These days the cloud data centre is a mainstream market for hardware vendors. In that environment FPGAs can make sense. They might have advantages in throughput, latency, power consumption, security (no spectre), reliability (no software updates). For example, Microsoft use them for Azure virtual networking, machine learning and something inside Bing. You can imagine a world…

You can spin up an FPGA-accelerated EC2 instance right now. There are a few highly specialised applications where every scrap of performance matters, but for the most part the software development costs are prohibitive compared to just spinning up more CPU or GPU instances.

https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/f1/

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#178
Benchmarking clause is unenforcible. It's like a clause by an auto manufacturer you can't track gas milage.

What you are supposed to just ignore how much gas you put in the tank? No different when your servers slow down and runs up your electric bills.

Re: Intel Publishes Microcode Patches, No Benchmarking or Comparison Allowed

#180

Before Zen, we all kind of assumed they were so far ahead that AMD were more likely to be out of business before they would ever be a credible threat again. I actually thought Intel must have had some tricks up their sleeves in terms of performance gains that we hadn't seen yet, simply because there was no market need to roll them out and they had so many years of coasting on marginal gains. Seeing them taking this s…

Equally troubling for Intel is the fact that they're losing their advantage in fabrication. The performance of their architecture is going backwards with every microcode patch, while their move to 10nm is hugely delayed.

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-cpu-10nm-earnings-amd,n...

Post reply on HN