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Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

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Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#171

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mirimir wrote: post #168
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you really get how Chinese businesses operate. Tech businesses, as long as they are Chinese, operate under an assumption of semi-impunity as long as they don't cross political boundaries. So healthcare fraud is in bounds, and if they get caught, they'll just get a slap on the wrist. Its not like the government condones the fraud, more like they don't care as long as it doesn't result in social instabili…

> Tech businesses, as long as they are Chinese, operate under an assumption of semi-impunity as long as they don't cross political boundaries. So healthcare fraud is in bounds, and if they get caught, they'll just get a slap on the wrist. Wait. So are you arguing that Chinese tech businesses are under state control, or that they aren't? Your examples point to a horrible compromise: political censorship with freedom t…

They are under state control so much as they are subject to state regulation and law and pressure. At the same time they are controlled they are also really free.

Ya, and it does suck for consumers.

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#172

Post by AnthonyMouse »

doombolt wrote: post #88
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that "calling out hypocrisy" is crap. Hypocrisy is not a logical fallacy. When an addict tells you that you shouldn't use heroin because it will ruin your life, the fact that they used heroin and it ruined their life doesn't make them a liar , it make them experienced. And the sole legitimate purpose in calling out hypocrisy is to get the other party to follow their own advice. But that means for Nazism…

When an addict tells you that you shouldn't use heroin it doesn't make them narcology expert. WRT "currently", does Guantanamo count?

> When an addict tells you that you shouldn't use heroin it doesn't make them narcology expert.

Especially when what really matters is academic credentials and not first-hand experience.

> WRT "currently", does Guantanamo count?

Sure. So let's oppose Guantanamo and what China is doing. At not let one derail every attempt to address the other one -- because stopping both is more important than which order we do it in.

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#173

Post by sologoub »

the_grue wrote: post #163
chapium wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a technical forum after all. Most devs and engineers ive meant are pretty blunt.

While I agree that an engineer is less likely to spend effort on politeness, they are more likely to substantiate their claims. sologub did neither in their comment.

Well, besides misspelling my name, you did not even stop to consider what I wrote before engaging in trying to spot a Russian national behind the post.

To understand why people “support” the current government, you have to understand what they have been through. 90s have not been kind to the average “Joe” (Ivan?) in Russia (or most of the non-EU former Soviet Union countries). From bad economical prospects to collapsing healthcare/education/social protections, life really went bad for them. When police is more dangerous than the thugs that shake you down, your priorities change.

This is why I advised that you should get to know the people first, before you judge them evil. You’ll likely find a lack of imperialist or almost any ambitions above and beyond a safe, modestly plentiful life and some hope for their children to live just a bit better.

Just like I believe a good portion of those who have voted for the current administration in US are at heart decent people, who are either angry or somehow disenfranchised, so are most people around the world. You have to get to know them to understand what ills have motivated their choices. Walk a mile in their shoes as it were.

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#174

Post by silverdrake11 »

zavi wrote: post #131
singularity2001 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even at google.com you can't be sure whether to get the real google, or just your personalized bubble.

Just go incognito

That'll clear your login and user data, but google still knows your ip address, os, screen resolution, browser, plugins, and many other small pieces of information that can be used to uniquely identify you and personalize your results

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#176

Post by amaccuish »

the_grue wrote: post #138
sologoub wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t speak for China, but in Russia the greatest level of popular political activity in recent times was during the peak of the economic prosperity for the average Russian - circa 2012-2013. People were actually driving around Moscow with stickers and banners calling the main political party out for corruption and theft of state property/funds. Then came the sanctions and 50% plunge in value of the currency. Incomes…

Let's get the logic straight here. Economic stagnation is a result of living under an aggressive totalitarian state, not of foreign sanctions on that state. You personally are unfortunate to live in that state and suffer from the side effects of wars it's waging, but Russians as a nation fully support the regime and have been empowering it for many years, therefore I feel they deserve what they're getting and more, u…

> Economic stagnation is a result of living under an aggressive totalitarian state

Your logic is flawed. Try telling that to China.

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#177

Post by amaccuish »

cageface wrote: post #102
dnomad wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the risk of sounding nationalistic, I think companies in the United States and other democratic countries should reconsider any and all business relationships with authoritarian regimes like those in China and Russia. It just sounds stupid. Looking at the situation rationally it is the US that has in just the last 20 years (a) attacked several countries and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and (…

You’re right that the USA has committed many sins of its own but freedom of expression in the USA is still protected to a degree unthinkable in places like China or Russia or Vietnam. I can go on Facebook right now and post any opinion I like of my government. See how long you have to wait for a knock on your door if you try this in one of those other countries. The censorship demands made by China, for example, abso…

> the USA has committed many sins of its own but freedom of expression in the USA is still protected

So Americans being able to say what they like is more important than the chaos the American government has wrought on the rest of the world? I'm not sure what you're saying.

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#178

Post by amaccuish »

mstaoru wrote: post #98

For once, I am on Google's side with this one. Somewhat of a discourse. In the last years, "China and Russia" became a new racist norm against anything and everything there. My mom and dad are absolutely against totalitarianism, but their "cardinal sin" is that they were born in Russia and they lack the financial means to move to another country. For years, they can't even buy any good cheese because the cheese was "…

When I moved to Russia, the one thing I was asked to bring was a shit tonne of cheese.

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#179

Post by amaccuish »

mstaoru wrote: post #165
Yizahi wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they vote for their dictator over last 18 years, alongside with 72% of other supporters? Do they approve extermination of ukrainians by russian armed forces? Do they approve annexation of neighbor territories? In 2008? in 2014? It is not "racist" if the majority of population supports unethical things.

Dear Ukrainian friend, I assure you the majority of the Russian population does not support it at all, but they are powerless to change it (hence the "totalitarian" sticker on the regime). I don't have that many Russian friends left, perhaps under a hundred including my family. Not a single one of them approves of this stupidity. We all voted against the dictator, but everybody understands that the voting was just a…

All the Russians I know supported Crimea :/ though they're less happy about Donbass etc (I think their view is Russia has enough problems, economy etc. as it is)

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#180

Post by the_grue »

sologoub wrote: post #169
the_grue wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m an American and your logic is flawed. Let me show you why I consider this line genuinely hilarious. In my opinion, an American would not normally make an absolute statement of that kind, they would say " I think your logic is flawed" or at least " let me show why your logic is flawed". An absolute claim of this kind sounds very Russian to my trained ear. > Try actually visiting the place and learning about/from…

Great, now we are determining the merit of a statement based on grammar and choice of words... (Written on a phone, so your mileage may vary) If you are in LA (Los Angeles) it’s easy enough to look me up.

I am determining the merit of a statement based on the arguments, which are absent in your comment. The choice of words merely made it ironic.
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