Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#171

Post by Seanny123 » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

xfs wrote: post #114

leviathant wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Speaking as someone who ran a rather large fansite about NIN in the 2000s (the entity now basically exists as a Twitter account), you really cannot just "grow organically" on today's internet. I like to tell people I have a marketing allergy. Self-promotion feels gross. The "if you build it, they will come" mantra from Field of Dreams is not applicable to a world where so much more content is being created than…

The question is what can we do about it? Are we stuck in the game of attention engineering forever?

Joe Edelman talks about an alternative that I find compelling, if not slightly idealistic.

https://medium.com/what-to-build/how-to-design-social-system...

Basically, if you focus on how people want to approach their goals/passions, instead of the goal itself, you get a really good idea of why they're doing something. If you know why they're doing something, you can design systems allowing get better genuine engagement. So, you stop designing for attention (which can be exploitative and bad) and start designing for meaning (which is empowering and enjoyable).

Applied to this problem of the lonely blogger/streamer, I'm not sure what the solution is... I'll think about it and post a reply later to avoid a wall of text.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#172

Post by CM30 » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #101

nickjj wrote: post #100

You could replace this title with "Programmers who spend years creating a SAAS app that no one uses" and it would be the same article. All of these streamers who are bothered by not having an audience seem to have started for the wrong reasons. If all they care about are subscribers and viewers, then you're going to get really burnt out when that doesn't happen. Most of the popular streamers who I've come across do i…

It would be even simpler to replace it with "Bloggers who have no audience". There are countless blogs out there and more everyday and few if any ever gain traction. However we must see it also from the small business perspective. How many start a business versus how many succeed? I remember when coffee shops, cupcake shops, and more, were the fad, and they vanish with regularity.

Yeah, this is basically the norm for a lot of artists and creators in general. You start out with no audience, and unless you somehow become a viral hit quite quickly, it's likely you'll spend months or years building up your work to the point it attracts one.

You could write the same story about YouTubers, bloggers, artists, musicians, business owners and software engineers. Many try, most either fail or struggle in relative obscurity.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#173

Post by Macha » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

minimaxir wrote: post #31

nlowell wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for streamers who are already somewhat established, the metagame is actually to move to whichever game is most popular with viewers.

That's also true. I wonder what the establishment inflection point is?

Probably getting into the top two rows with your own fanbase so you can attract organic traffic just clicking $game.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#174

Post by metalliqaz » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

mlinsey wrote: post #105

metalliqaz wrote: post #14

What I don't understand about Twitch is how anyone has time to consume this content. When it comes to sitting on your butt and watching something, the traditional TV show is moving to an on-demand model. Twitch is a step in the other direction, where if you faithfully consume content from any Twitch channel, you have to sit down and watch for hours every night when the streamer is online. Who does that? I imagine it'…

I watch Twitch because I grew up playing lots of video games and now watching is less of a time commitment then playing the games. Streamers aren't meant to be consumed by watching them every day for hours on end. I mean, I'm sure there are core fans who do that, probably students and single young professionals like you say, but my use case for Twitch is "hey, I have 10-20 minutes free; not even enough time for a ful…

I think this is a good explanation, however don't you find that you have to be a player of the game in order to enjoy watching it? Not being a MOBA player, I can never understand what is going on when watching games like DotA.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#175

Post by moretai » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

Twisol wrote: post #11

moretai wrote: post #2

Are these not people who are just deluding themselves that they are doing it out of love, when all they want to do is be famous?

I can only speak for myself, but as someone who streams off and on (mostly off, since I've got other things going on right now that I need to focus on), I have no particular desire to be famous. I'd rather not be famous. But it's really enjoyable to be able to share my experiences with other people. For a lot of games (most?), there's a significant amount of organic content that comes out of you, a specific person, g…

It was a genuine question. I understand where you are coming from. But I wonder how far you have rationalized away from the point that it is you that are the source of the fun, and the other people are in for the ride. Your ride. You are not playing with these people. These people are watching YOU.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#176

Post by rhizome » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

bcoates wrote: post #142

Reedx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I'm curious about is where that comes from. Why do people like falling asleep to the TV? Why is it preferred over white noise?

I get pareidolia from white noise. Not a lot, but enough that the 'sounds' are more distracting than mundane background sounds like TV or music that I can tune out easily.

Hah yeah, I hear melodies in white noise fairly often. Are you a musician by chance?

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#177

Post by CM30 » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

SurrealSoul wrote: post #36

I personally know Markipler (youtube, 23M+) as well as follow some other people here and there. There is a youtuber; BloominBanana I subbed around the same time I subbed to Markipler 2010ish, they both do (did?) the same horror gameplay except Bloomin' has about 12 subs on youtube. Mark as I knew him was the king of 'going out there' he was never afraid of marketing, publicity stunts and was honestly humble to his hu…

I wouldn't say growing organically is completely impossible. However, it's very, very unlikely unless either:

1. You are exceedingly lucky, and your work somehow attracts the attention of a person or organisation who's already famous/has a massive audience. This is how many indie games take off, with examples like Five Nights at Freddy's and what not becoming popular after being played by the likes of Markiplier and PewDiePie.

2. You somehow find a very specific niche that no one else on the planet has decided to compete in and that somehow has a decent sized audience interested in it. This is far less likely than it used to be in the early internet days, but it's still technically possible. One of my own forums is like this, since it's the only site dedicated to a certain video game franchise on the entire internet. Another example may be the likes of Boundary Break on YouTube.

But you're right that it's certainly not a practical way to grow your channel/site/business/whatever, especially as the only way someone can succeed that way is basically through sheer dumb luck.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#178

Post by wilsonnb2 » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

LoSboccacc wrote: post #21

moretai wrote: post #2

Are these not people who are just deluding themselves that they are doing it out of love, when all they want to do is be famous?

Depends. I’d say for example that the primitive technology channel does it out of love. So there are people like that, even if the wast majority does it because let’s be honest a career in video gaming sounds great. But the thing is those are also the least likely to attract viewers. Top spots nowadays are claimed by sponsored players anyway and making it as an amateur is nightmarish difficult. Fame grows exponential…

The primitive technology guy doesn't stream, though, as far as I know. He just makes videos.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#179

Post by neaden » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #174

mlinsey wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch Twitch because I grew up playing lots of video games and now watching is less of a time commitment then playing the games. Streamers aren't meant to be consumed by watching them every day for hours on end. I mean, I'm sure there are core fans who do that, probably students and single young professionals like you say, but my use case for Twitch is "hey, I have 10-20 minutes free; not even enough time for a ful…

I think this is a good explanation, however don't you find that you have to be a player of the game in order to enjoy watching it? Not being a MOBA player, I can never understand what is going on when watching games like DotA.

You need to understand it certainly, in the same way you need to understand the rules of Football to really enjoy watching a game. but I haven't played SC or SC2 in years and I still enjoy watching the streams, in the same way that I've never played a real game of hockey but still like watching the NHL.

Re: Twitch streamers who spend years broadcasting to no one

#180

Post by moretai » Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

LoSboccacc wrote: post #21

moretai wrote: post #2

Are these not people who are just deluding themselves that they are doing it out of love, when all they want to do is be famous?

Depends. I’d say for example that the primitive technology channel does it out of love. So there are people like that, even if the wast majority does it because let’s be honest a career in video gaming sounds great. But the thing is those are also the least likely to attract viewers. Top spots nowadays are claimed by sponsored players anyway and making it as an amateur is nightmarish difficult. Fame grows exponential…

But there is a way for the primitive technology channel to be monetized. For him to gain recognition, as opposed to him just building his wooden houses in isolation. Without anyone knowing. It is not as if he's unaware of people making millions off of youtube(or being famous, whatever), or the internet. We can't separate youtube no matter how "primitive" the action being filmed is. He may be doing it out of pure love, but if it was true love, why does he feel the need to film it? To help others? Why do any of us need to know how to do this, and how does a video help? He most likely got good at building a log house from building hundreds of shitty log houses from before.