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LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

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Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#171

Post by dragonwriter »

rbanffy wrote: post #168
blattimwind wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used some SAP-based solutions a few times and the closest experience I can relate it to is late 90s MS Access applications: Everything takes ages. Things that should be easy and quick (e.g. viewing a related record or item) are often difficult and take time. Every form of search function doesn't really work, even with perfect input data. Searching doesn't work if your input is slightly off (e.g. names in wrong o…

One of the reasons companies adopt software like SAP is to replace process expertise with software. If a highly paid process expert accomplishes a task in half the time a poorly paid person accomplishes the same task with SAP, SAP wins if the poorly paid person makes half as much as the well paid one. Also there is a question of scalability - the supply of smart people is limited and depending on smarts is risky. Hir…

> One of the reasons companies adopt software like SAP is to replace process expertise with software. If a highly paid process expert accomplishes a task in half the time a poorly paid person accomplishes the same task with SAP, SAP wins if the poorly paid person makes half as much as the well paid one.

Assuming SAP is free both to license and implement. From what I've heard of SAP installations, that's rather far from the normal case.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#172

Post by rbanffy »

brohee wrote: post #96
sparkling wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not yet seen a SAP software that could not be replaced with a homemade Django/Rails web app (90% CRUD) and some external API integrations to other services that may exist in the company such HR, invoicing etc. Of course, at the fraction of the the cost of the SAP solution.

OpenERP is not Django based IIRC, but they basically thought the same thing and went at it with some good success.

I seriously doubt OpenERP has the same scope as SAP. It works for smaller structures but, like mentioned before, if your operations cross too many national borders, things get insanely complicated really quickly.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#173

Post by avip »

DrinkWater wrote: post #11

SAP was, and will always stay, a mystery to me. It is ridiculously expensive and complex. I know that the problems it aims to solve are also highly complex and very specific, but reading stories like this, plus (if you live in Germany and work in the IT industry) sometimes hearing unbelievable stories from your peers, it always confuses me that companies still want so much SAP. In the late 90s/early 00s a lot of peop…

When Oracle is your alternative, SAP suddenly looks better.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#174

Post by singingfish »

My thoughts on this having worked in a team doing an ERP (think SAP lite) and now working in a sap shop (my job often involves avoiding interacting with SAP to the maximum extent possible):

ERPs are hard. ERPs are not software for modelling business processes, they are software for creating software that models business processes. And at the next layer you have all of the shortcuts that the vendor and the customer took during getting something that works out the door. Which happens a lot, at both levels. This is of course a recipe for fun interesting times with lots of billable hours.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#175

Post by rbanffy »

Notre1 wrote: post #81
sp332 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a high-turnover country?

I'm betting it's inventory turnover (e.g. busier stores). It sounds like they were have problems with the inventory management component of SAP keeping up with the rate and volume of transaction that they were putting through it.

Probably too many low-ticket operations to move stock, which is critical for keeping your margins low in grocery stores.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#176

Post by xxpor »

blattimwind wrote: post #61
lucb1e wrote: post #22

Human translation (I should practice my German anyway): Because introducing a new data system didn't work out, the Deutsche Post (German Mail) has already booked higher losses a few years ago. The same now happened to Lidl. The planned system still doesn't work smoothly after seven years and more than half a billion euros in costs. Now, the discount store pulled the kill chord. For years, Lidl is expanding operations…

> pulled the kill chord. pulled the plug > For years, Lidl is expanding operations. For years, Lidl has expanded operations. > high-turnover countries high-volume or high-revenue

high-turnover is a commonwealthism, not necessarily a bad translation.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#177

Post by rbanffy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #171
rbanffy wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons companies adopt software like SAP is to replace process expertise with software. If a highly paid process expert accomplishes a task in half the time a poorly paid person accomplishes the same task with SAP, SAP wins if the poorly paid person makes half as much as the well paid one. Also there is a question of scalability - the supply of smart people is limited and depending on smarts is risky. Hir…

> One of the reasons companies adopt software like SAP is to replace process expertise with software. If a highly paid process expert accomplishes a task in half the time a poorly paid person accomplishes the same task with SAP, SAP wins if the poorly paid person makes half as much as the well paid one. Assuming SAP is free both to license and implement. From what I've heard of SAP installations, that's rather far fr…

It really depends on your scale. If you replace a thousand people who earn a thousand more than their replacements, you made a million right there.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#178

Post by dragonwriter »

rbanffy wrote: post #177
dragonwriter wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the reasons companies adopt software like SAP is to replace process expertise with software. If a highly paid process expert accomplishes a task in half the time a poorly paid person accomplishes the same task with SAP, SAP wins if the poorly paid person makes half as much as the well paid one. Assuming SAP is free both to license and implement. From what I've heard of SAP installations, that's rather far fr…

It really depends on your scale. If you replace a thousand people who earn a thousand more than their replacements, you made a million right there.

> If you replace a thousand people who earn a thousand more than their replacements, you made a million right there.

Well, no, doing some quick research, because SAP annual license costs are substantially > $1000 per user, you've lost something like at least half a million and potentially several million in that case. Just considering license fees, and not other SAP-related costs.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#179

Post by mosselman »

lagadu wrote: post #82
mosselman wrote: post #12

This is so unacceptable yet happens so often. Here in the Netherlands the government has several projects that failed with costs amounting to hundreds of millions. For sums as these any Organisation can just setup a more capable development company that could handle all of the internal projects and its developers could be top of the line.

The thing is, yes you can set up a new company and make a new product from scratch whose requirements are exactly defined by you and after a few years of work they'll have a working product. Then what? You'll still be running the same software in 10 years, are you going to keep paying an entire company's worth of employees during those 10 years so they can hang out and be ready to implement all the changes you'll eve…

There is never just one project. So these employees can keep improving the original project and create new ones. Do you think these consultants will do all that maintenance? Many projects fail before release and others just last for a few years. A government owned software department would be a great way to save money and improve all aspects of the application life-cycle.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#180

Post by nitwit005 »

bumholio wrote: post #103
netinmate wrote: post #86

Customization is key, you CAN't customize. I worked on an SAP implementation, a Fortune 500 company, complexity like crazy, sub-companies, of sub-companies, of sub-companies, federal, state and local compliance for what the company did, operating in 50 states, with an International supply chain, and our integrator was nothing special. We held firm to the NO CUSTOMIZATION rule, we re-engineered our processes to fit SA…

> we re-engineered our processes to fit SAP. That sounds just about like the most revolting and negative endorsement you can make for a business solution. Every company is special and the flexibility to adapt to a changing environment is what keeps a company alive during those times of crisis, that always come. "We can't do this because the system does not allow it" is great and expected at the warehouse worker level…

> That sounds just about like the most revolting and negative endorsement you can make for a business solution.

A lot of these larger software packages support different levels of customization, and they usually press people to use the simplest stuff.

It's not completely possible to guarantee reliability once the customer is writing their own code. You can guarantee the app doesn't fall over, and data isn't lost, but ultimately the customer is free to shoot themselves in the foot, and they will.

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