Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall • Hacker News Board

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#171

Post by _bpgl » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

polynomial wrote: post #152

cornholio wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car is surrounded by posters that read "Enter to win" above a picture of a white vehicle otherwise similar to the blue car physically present. There is absolutely no doubt that ideogram promises a chance to win the car in exchange for the registration.

> There is absolutely no doubt that ideogram promises a chance to win the car in exchange for the registration. While a naive person may make that inference, a rational person may understand that 'ideogram' does not constitute an assertion that the picture depicts the prize to be won. I sure don't mean to defend such predatory scammers, but I'm pretty sure they are legally safe on that part. I had a friend last year…

I don't think it's particularly "naive" to believe that retailers or advertising companies could make enough off of a contest promotion to justify the cost of a car. Most of the cost models of contests are opaque and, in most of North America at least, there is probably a general perception that regulations would be in place for something that so prominently implies that it is a contest for a car. The "trick" here is to set up the appearance of a contest while evading the legal controls for an actual contest. The very trick of disambiguating this in the more-or-less fine print is probably only allowed in things that aren't sweepstakes or contests.

Yes, in hindsight, it may seem that only "naive" people could believe this, and that "rational" people see through it. But this strategy probably represents something like the endpoint of a search strategy that found a successful meme, precisely because it mimics authentic, regulated contests.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#172

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:22 PM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #21

>The information from these forms is collected en masse, entered into a large database, and delivered directly to the telemarketing company running the promotion (in this case, Great Destinations). Praise be GDPR.

[deleted]

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#173

Post by emacdona » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:22 PM UTC

pwg wrote: post #99

quickthrower2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the scam? "Free flight" if you buy the timeshare or something?

Roping the unsuspecting into an incredibly expensive time-share using hard-sell boiler-room tactics without ever being up-front about the true costs. I sat through one of these once, curious about how it was going to go, and with the intent going in of not ever buying anything anyway. They present the timeshare as if it costs only pennies a day, and never admit to the true cost unless pressed very hard (and even then…

I always thought it would be kinda fun to get a group of people together (maybe a Meetup) who would attend timeshare pitches for fun. The goal would be to pack the room with people who had no intention of buying in.

Time is money, and I suspect the best way to cost them money is to waste their time.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#174

Post by pixl97 » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:24 PM UTC

afpx wrote: post #80

starpilot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why haven't they all been shutdown if they are clearly illegal? Also, I've seen these across the country.

It is incredibly frustrating that police don’t seem to actively enforce the majority of the laws. My local police seem anemic. There sure are a lot of them, though. Patrol cars are always visible. And, (right-wing) politicians seem to always want to be hiring more and upgrading their gear. For instance, recently they asked for a $30M shooting range. But, if the local newspapers are a good record, it seems that all th…

>It is incredibly frustrating that police don’t seem to actively enforce the majority of the laws

It's not just the police. It's the DA and judges too. Also, weirdly enough, the defense attorneys and public have a very large burden of fault here.

A court clerk I know realized while filing records that our county had been in violation of state law for over 7 years in handling one type of case. Hundreds, if not thousands of cases have been prosecuted in that time. Yet, there was exactly 0 formal complaints about the counties violation of the statutes.

The clerk in question had to point that out to an attorney quietly, who then finally made a complaint on a case they were handling. After that the country dropped a few hundred pending cases on its books. But why did it take 7 years? Why hasn't anyone went "wow, the county violated people's rights for years, should someone be prosecuted"

Nope, just more revenue collection for all involved.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#175

Post by TomVDB » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:27 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #151

pwg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roping the unsuspecting into an incredibly expensive time-share using hard-sell boiler-room tactics without ever being up-front about the true costs. I sat through one of these once, curious about how it was going to go, and with the intent going in of not ever buying anything anyway. They present the timeshare as if it costs only pennies a day, and never admit to the true cost unless pressed very hard (and even then…

I went to one to satisfy the same sort of morbid fascination as well. I really have to hand it to the sales people, it was one of the most incredible sales pitches I've ever seen. They shuttled us to one of their premier properties where they took us to a sales room and served us breakfast. After a few moments they had everybody gather around a large presentation screen and a salesman who spent the next hour not just…

I went to a similar presentation in Hawaii for educational purposes and was able to convince my wife and daughter to come along.

It was less impressive than we hoped it would be, but we had a good time by replying leading questions with undesired answers. (“How much do you pay per night for a hotel?” “$150 for our excellent Airbnb!”)

I almost felt bad (but not really) for the sales woman who was obviously wasting her time.

When her boss joined in to take it to the next level, I simply asked him: “we’re going to France this summer, 6 months from now, in the Nice area. Show me which offers I could book today through your timeshare plan.” There was nothing reasonable. He gave up soon after that and we received our $300 tour tickets for free.

All in all not a bad deal, but we won’t do it again.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#176

Post by zero_iq » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:29 PM UTC

robin_reala wrote: post #102

bkor wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm from the UK[..] I think the region you're in has a strong impact on what the police's priorities are, due to different leadership. Totally agree! The few times I compare ads on television from Netherlands vs England the difference is huge. There's a huge amount of gambling advertisement in England. Advertising regarding something that's addicting is often quickly restricted in The Netherlands. Secondly the loan…

It’s not just the UK in Europe though. Sweden is worse for gambling advertising than the UK ever has been, at least 2/3rds of evening TV adverts here are for online casinos.

In Sweden I was surprised at the the gambling games aimed at kids at fairs/theme parks. Roulette/wheel of fortune gambling to win big bags of sweets and chocolates. In the UK I think you'd at least have to introduce an element of skill into the game. (Also I've never seen so much candy for sale as in Sweden! It's amazing Swedes have any teeth left.).

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#177

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:29 PM UTC

starpilot wrote: post #23

Animats wrote: post #9

Since this is a California on-site thing, California sweepstakes law applies.[1] - "The exact nature and approximate value of the prizes must be disclosed clearly and conspicuously when they are offered." - "The law prohibits the company from misrepresenting the odds of receiving any item offered." - Prohibited: "Failing to award and distribute all prizes of the value and type represented." Online complaint form here…

Why haven't they all been shutdown if they are clearly illegal? Also, I've seen these across the country.

> Why haven't they all been shutdown if they are clearly illegal?

Is anyone seriously complaining? This is the first I've heard about this scam in years.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#178

Post by polynomial » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

analogmemory wrote: post #37

My dad signed up for one of those sweepstakes back in the '90s. They called and said he won a "prize" but he had to come into view a "presentation". Went to the "presentation" where they tried to hustle him to signup for a timeshare. He resisted and they gave him the "prize", which was a knockoff boombox. That boombox is still alive, my mom uses it in the garage when she's doing gardening. I'm pretty sure the company…

What's a boombox?

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#179

Post by Mister_Snuggles » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

jsjohnst wrote: post #156

asfdsfggtfd wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the advice given by banks and anti-fraud agencies. NB in some countries landlines can remain on a call for several minutes after the call receiver has hung up. A phisher will play a dial tone etc to make it seem realistic. The advice is to either wait 10 minutes (longer?) or preferably call back on another line if you receive a suspicious call.

> NB in some countries landlines can remain on a call for several minutes after the call receiver has hung up. Source for this? I find it highly suspect from a technical perspective (1-3 seconds, maybe, but not several minutes) and nothing I can find online even remotely seems legitimate / real.

I’ve personally experienced this, probably 30 years ago, in Canada.

I’d call a friend, we’d finish talking, then I’d hang up and as a joke he’d leave his phone off the hook. I couldn’t make another phone call until he hung up or some timeout of unknown length passed.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#180

Post by jsjohnst » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

glenneroo wrote: post #148

sumedh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather it's directly connected to your bank account, So a debit card?

I thought a debit card was just for withdrawing cash? We have bank cards (Bankomat Karte) for withdrawing cash - in fact, when you pay and want to use the card, many people just say "karte" (literally: card) to mean a bank (debit?) card and not a credit card. Our Visa cards can also withdraw using a pin, but I don't know anyone who does (anecdotally speaking - but I do pay attention to shoppers ahead of me in line, s…

What you initially described isn’t a “debit card” despite GPs post, but a debit card isn’t what you think either. A debit card can be used like an ATM card (what you call a Bankomat, and isn’t charged a cash advance fee like using a pin with a normal credit card), but it also can be used pinless like a credit card, just the money is immediately held in your bank account. That’s the difference with what you described originally, the immediate rather than end of month part. The closest thing really we have in the US generally used to what you describe is a “charge card”, which some versions of American Express are. You are required to settle up in full at the end of the month usually, though, and carrying a balance isn’t allowed (again, not always, but usually).