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Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#171

Post by wwweston »

koolba wrote: post #93
i_dont_know_ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're getting it very wrong; this isn't about people saying "let's just allow illegal immigrants the full rights of legal immigrants". There are some people saying that, but they're a small minority. This is about saying "some people have come here illegally. let's not psychologically torture their children for it" You can be for legal migration and the humane treatment of people at the same time.

What’s the alternative? Anyone else that commits a crime and is imprisoned is separated from their family and children. Why should illegal immigrants get a pass?

The fun part about this question is that it's always asked as if it's crazy talk to suggest there could be variation in how different crimes are addressed.... when in fact, there's quite a latitude in how we handle different violations of the law. Or even individual cases.

Not every crime is prosecuted and not every conviction means prison. Why should immigration be different?

(And that's before we even get to the question of reports where people presenting themselves for asylum -- a legal process -- have been treated as if they're breaking the law. Or ways in which recent policy seems to have been tweaked to otherwise gum up legal immigration avenues.)

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#172

Post by dang »

ThbTs4wbXC9Qjv wrote: post #104

Fire every single one of those Microsoft employees. People in ICE protect me, mine, and our way of life with their lives every day of the week. I'm not going to flippantly say fuck those people because the politics of the day are making a mockery of a law that was duly imposed and enforced by both parties spanning multiple administrations because it's the fashionable political protest fad of the day. Protest the lead…

Rants like this will get you banned on HN regardless of what you're ranting about. Please follow the rules, of which you broke a whole bunch here. They are at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#174

Post by sanderjd »

philliphaydon wrote: post #124
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants to do my job better than me for the same or less money, they're welcome to it.

If you went to America, legally, got a work visa etc and got a job, then lost that job to someone who sneeked in across the border or overstayed a visitor visa, you would welcome it?

What advantage is my employer gaining by hiring the illegal immigrant instead of continuing to employ me? Would it be that they can pay them less than minimum wage or avoid paying payroll taxes or avoid paying for mandatory benefits? If so, my problem is with my employer, not with the illegal immigrant that replaced me.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#175

Post by anigbrowl »

ginger123 wrote: post #96
popularrecluse wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done everything from washing dishes, waiting tables, managing 2 coffee shops, landscape work, data entry, to my current work as a mobile developer. And I know where you're going with this, and no I've never had trouble finding work when I needed it.

What if I told you the presence of undocumented immigrants might have depressed your earnings as a dishwasher. No hard feelings still? PS. I know, I am assigning a stereotypical job to an undocumented immigrant.

What if I told you that's called the "lump of labor fallacy" and there's no empirical support for the claim?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#176

Post by furgooswft13 »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #150
furgooswft13 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to get into a political flame fest here, but honest question: Is asylum seekers the new term for illegal immigrants? Before it was undocumented immigrants. I'll admit it seems like it may be a more effective terminology for garnering sympathy, but it also carries more expectations, some legal. According to USCIS "asylum may be granted to people who have been persecuted or fear they will be persecuted on ac…

"Asylum seekers" is the term for people who show up at a port of entry and ask for asylum. We don't have to admit all of them to the country, but are obligated by treaty to give their applications for asylum due consideration. It is also not reasonable to forcibly separate them from their families when their only crime is to ask to be allowed into the country.

To my understanding, the people who actually showed up at an official port of entry are not the ones facing criminal prosecution and family separation. In fact, most of them are simply turned away or told "we're full for the day" or some such. Of course this often prompts them to just attempt crossing in an illegal way.

Regardless, at that point it's no longer a matter of "asking to be allowed into the country".

Point is I've seen the term "asylum seeker" a lot recently in reference to the current immigration crisis and the issue of families being separated. Certainly some of the families who crossed illegally are seeking asylum, but I suspect most are, just as always, people looking to immigrate because of the economic advantages of living and working in the US. Whatever you think of that, asylum it does not make.

Edit: I have read of a few cases where apparently families that showed up at an official port of entry were detained and separated. If this is done without serious reason to believe the children are not actually related to the parents, or are otherwise in danger, of course it is wrong. Still most of the cases of family separation people are complaining about are from illegal crossings. Whether you believe that is right or wrong is another issue.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#177

Post by koolba »

wwweston wrote: post #171
koolba wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? Anyone else that commits a crime and is imprisoned is separated from their family and children. Why should illegal immigrants get a pass?

The fun part about this question is that it's always asked as if it's crazy talk to suggest there could be variation in how different crimes are addressed.... when in fact, there's quite a latitude in how we handle different violations of the law. Or even individual cases. Not every crime is prosecuted and not every conviction means prison. Why should immigration be different? (And that's before we even get to the qu…

> Not every crime is prosecuted and not every conviction means prison. Why should immigration be different?

Prosecution of illegal immigration is a bit special as anything short of full enforcement is arguably open borders. It’s unreasonably to expect an illegal entrant to show up for a court date. They’ve already demonstrated they won’t respect the law.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#178

Post by sanderjd »

refurb wrote: post #78
kojon99 wrote: post #14

I’m not American and I’ve always found it fascinating how a part of the American population defends the existence of illegal immigrants in American soil. It’s crazy.

Agreed. Nearly every other western country has strict immigration laws that they enforce and nobody seems to mind those.

You make it sound like it's a solved problem that we're behind the curve on. This doesn't seem accurate to me; it seems like immigration is a divisive hot-button issue in most western democracies right now.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#179

Post by tomnipotent »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #47

It would be entirely expected and likely, that were MSFT to cancel their ICE contract, that many other parts of the Federal government would leave MSFT's services. After all, they too would be only 1 media dustup away from having to deal with finding another vendor suddenly.

> that many other parts of the Federal government would leave MSFT's services.

The government is not going to waste billions of dollars over something like this, especially given its track record in IT.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#180

Post by throwaway2jiofe »

nickwalton00 wrote: post #129
downandout wrote: post #53

Could someone help me understand the issue with this whole thing? If you show up to commit a crime with your children in tow, you are going to wind up separated from them while you go to jail for that crime. That is as true for illegal entry as it is for bank robbery. Why does the Valley feel that it's OK for immigration laws to be violated? Even very liberal countries around the world tend to be tough on illegal imm…

Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families. Imagine people fleeing a country from a flood or attacking country (like Germany in WWII) we're torn from their children and held separately? Does that seem humane?

Imagine people fleeing a country from a flood or attacking country (like Germany in WWII) we're torn from their children and held separately? Does that seem humane?

I can imagine this, but afaik there are no floods or wars going on in Mexico atm. It would be inhumane to punish people in that scenario, but that isn't the scenario we are talking about. Rather, these seem to just be people that don't like it in Mexico and want to go to the US. I want lots of things too, but I don't break the law to get them.

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