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Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

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Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#171
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also VB 6 syntax was complete shit.

Pretty much any old language has an odd and inconsistent syntax. I am getting into python now and it feels so much like doing VBA.

Oh yeah, just wait until during a job interview somebody complains that you aren't "pythonic" enough, i.e. don't use some weird inconsistent syntactic wart somebody learned to love.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#173
post #87
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use Excel for large spreadsheets you are probably not using the right tool.

Pandas is slow. Hadoop is slow. Spark is slow. R is slow. What else is there?

R is miles faster than Excel on large data tables.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#175
For skype I'm curious how much will be written in JS, I'm assuming crypto won't be?

I could well be wrong but I thought with an interpreted language it would be very hard to protect against timing attacks?

Wouldn't a lot of the network communication also be utilising compiled libraries?

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I threw billions of dollars of vested interest at Python/Ruby/COBOL/(insert language of your choice) we can probably make those run at JS speeds as well. Does that solve the fundamental drawbacks of the languages? Nope. No it does not. JavaScript is particularly egregious because of it's weird behaviour about types and coercion and you know, just silently failing, behaviour that I wouldn't want going on in any pro…

every dynamically-typed language has "weird" behaviour around type coercion, that's simply the nature of the beast. sure wish i knew what you are talking about w/r/t "silently failing". JS has working exceptions just like 99% of widely used languages. I'm very glad that you've been omniscient enough to determine what "proper" parallel support is, though. How's that working out for you? Meanwhile, those of us using Ja…

> every dynamically-typed language has "weird" behaviour around type coercion

Do they now?

    $ irb
    irb(main):001:0> "0" + 1
    TypeError: no implicit conversion of Fixnum into String
            from (irb):1:in `+'
            from (irb):1
            from /usr/bin/irb:11:in `'
    irb(main):002:0> ^D
    $ python
    >>> "0" + 1
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "", line 1, in 
    TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
    >>> ^D
    $ node
    > "0" + 1
    '01'
> Meanwhile, those of us using JavaScript simply run one process per core and never worry about contention, deadlocks, or race conditions.

If you never worry about those things, then you're either not sharing any resources at all (in which case threads are also dead easy), or you're failing to deal with the shared resources properly.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#177
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (4x slower, perhaps) "4x" is a lot slower, and a lot of things are much worse than this. You have to have deep knowledge of the VM (such as knowing how "hidden classes" work in V8) to be able to get JS close to Java. > so I'll disregard that. You shouldn't. Claiming a JIT'ed language is fast due to being faster than Python, an entirely interpreted language, is like saying a moped is a fast vehicle because it's fast…

>Most language features, really. Name a few. >terrible "prototype" system >malice that is "this" It sounds like you are talking about ES5, not ES6+

Can you guarantee all ES6- code to disappear immediately? Or are you forced to dive deep into warts when you have to work on some older JS project?

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#178
post #156
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There are only two kinds of file systems. Those that corrupt your data eventually and those nobody uses." Luckily, filesystem designers worked hard at making their filesystems journaling, fault tolerant, and more. And we stopped complaining angrily about filesystems ruining weeks (or months) of work, because it stopped being a regular occurrence. We still complain about the flaws of C++ because they are a constant s…

I don't think he's saying the criticisms are invalid, but just that they are at the forefront of more people's minds because the respective language is more prevalent. Languages that are barely used also have their problems - they are just undiscovered or spoken about less.

If he wanted to make the really mundane point that people don't complain about things they don't use there would be absolutely no reason to bring C++ into it. He could just remark that nobody complains about the bad handling of the Model T anymore because nobody drives it. It's true but why is that relevant or at all interesting? Do we really believe this is the mundane observation Stroustrup is making?

No. Stroustrup uses his snarky retort to deflect criticism. When C++ is criticized by (academic) language designers, his comment reads as "and yet people use my language and not yours". And that's pretty immature.

Popular tools have to meet a high quality standard because every wart in the language affects millions of people.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#179
post #150
post #142

Why not C#? Seems a bit of a missed opportunity to feed some of the APIs undoubtedly created for this into the new .net core stuff. I guess i'll just keep dreaming of the day when i can reliably convert a docx into a pdf without using office interop.

This is the confusing part for me, yes. Javascript is fine and well, but C# seems the better choice in general here.

What makes it the better choice in this situation? C# can't run in browsers whereas Office 365 can.
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