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Make front end shit again

makefrontendshitagain.party

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Re: Make front end shit again

#171

Post by bArray »

d2kx wrote: post #65
bArray wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just throttle your router settings for download/upload - have fun! In all seriousness though, people designing websites should be given the shittiest connections possible and old computers (between 5 and 10 years old). Maybe then we'll end up with websites that haven't got more JS than content, broken CSS and images that push the page download over several megabytes.

Chrome Dev Tools let you simulate shit internet connection (2G, slow 3G, fast 3G, etc.) and Google encourages to this for development for the reasons you've mentioned.

It's awesome it exists, but useless if nobody uses it. I think the Google homepage is the only Google product I'm aware of that loads fast, minimal CSS and still loads without JS. Even on a modern computer, some websites have become completely unacceptable to run in the background (i.e. Facebook).

Installing NoScript and blocking external CSS was the best decision I ever made. Now use The UK Government site team is my go to for a good web design philosophy: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/government-design-principles (Hell, if they could run the actual Government like this we would be in a lot better shape!)

Re: Make front end shit again

#173

Post by bunderbunder »

wmccullough wrote: post #169
jameskilton wrote: post #19

I love the point the site is trying to make but I'm confused as to why this is built with a vue.js static site generator requiring node/npm/yarn and an almost 7,000 line yarn.lock file. Shouldn't this literally be a single page, hand-built HTML file with inline CSS? Is this trying to be self-ironic or something?

I keep seeing this general attitude about frontend, but I have a serious question: What’s the better alternative? I’m not asking this rhetorically because I have an answer, I just keep seeing the same remarks with no decent solutions. Is it time for the way we deliver the web to be rethought? Are we really in the golden age of the frontend but everyone is being too much of a hipster to realize it? What’s the solution…

I don't know, either, but it does seem that the latest crop of frontend libraries (React & friends) is optimizing for a very high level of richness that simply isn't needed for most sites. Which is fine, but where it gets worrisome is when that lofty level of complexity is the only thing people know how to use.

I recently got to watch someone spend nearly a full week fiddling with building a React app for filling out a form for submitting a batch job on an intranet site. It's a lot of code, and it's non-trivial to understand how it works, what with all the async methods and clever state management and whatnot. It needs to be built, which is a thing, and building it requires having the right environment setup. (Its build speed reminds me of my C++ days, too.) I wouldn't be surprised if someone's already talking about incorporating Docker into its future.

At least to me, that's a rather arresting amount of time and money to see being sunk into a job that could have been accomplished with a simple HTML form on a static page.

Re: Make front end shit again

#174

Post by wolco »

about_help wrote: post #82
wereHamster wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hand-build HTML file with inline CSS, that you edit with $YOURFAVOURITETEXTEDITOR which requires an OS that's 50 million lines of code. And you're complaining about 7000 lines in an auto-generated file, which doesn't even have to be touched nor edited by a human? The tools we use are insignificant, what's important is the result. If the result is a HTML file with inline CSS, who cares how it was created? You can use…

As someone else said you missed the point. I will tack on my own opinion that building sites that only function with javascript is a massive disservice to everyone. From disabled people with accessibility needs, to old hardware/software, and even to security/privacy conscious people the JS paradigm is a massive problem. The trend for "new shiny" has become ridiculous and I find most modern websites to be pretty but r…

We've dumbed down sites removed advanced functions to make things appeal to the masses. I understand why but it does make sites more useless.

Re: Make front end shit again

#175

Post by TeMPOraL »

true_religion wrote: post #164
TeMPOraL wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention this all adds up to unnecessary increase of global electricity usage. (For those who don't care about society in general, consider that this also means your users' batteries last shorter, making their days worse.)

I could idle I traffic for fifteen minutes and use more power in total. I mean honestly if you're concerned about energy use and environmental issues, then it's more effective to stop using mobile devices all together, and encourage the use of desktop.

I'm not obsessive about energy use. I just don't like unnecessary waste. The problem here is that wasteful engineering gets popular, and in software, all that waste is multiplied by the numbers of users. Both of those factors add up to significant carbon footprint, and also significant drain on mobile devices. The former is an environmental/social concern, the latter is what makes your devices last less on a single charge, what makes them lag, and what makes you able to run less software in parallel. Computing resources are a commons too.

Re: Make front end shit again

#176

Post by headsoup »

jameskilton wrote: post #19

I love the point the site is trying to make but I'm confused as to why this is built with a vue.js static site generator requiring node/npm/yarn and an almost 7,000 line yarn.lock file. Shouldn't this literally be a single page, hand-built HTML file with inline CSS? Is this trying to be self-ironic or something?

From the linked Github page:

> It's complicated on porpuse btw, I wanted to do it in ReasonML and Graphql but didn't have time as this was done in an afternoon hackathon

And yeah probably the ironic thing. This sort of page should be simple, much as a wide portion of websites out there.

Re: Make front end shit again

#177

Post by wolco »

whack wrote: post #162
saravieira wrote: post #70

Hey! I made this dumb thing! Yes, the fact that it's made with vue and stuff is on porpuse, I wanted to make it with reasonml but didn't have any time so ended up with vue. The point is that we complicate so many shit today that is not needed Have fun and I will add some marquee tags!

> The point is that we complicate so many shit today that is not needed Isn't your site making the opposite point? That without all the "complicated shit that is not needed", websites would look as awful as they did in the 1990s. Any website-maker is of course free to make their site as "shit" as they want, but 99% of users are not going to visit it a 2nd time.

Sites that were pixel perfect photoshop exports looked better than the basic look we have now. Designers had more freedom to reproduce high res designs. Mobile forced us to get simplier and everyone uses a framework now. Designing feel more restricted and difficult.

Re: Make front end shit again

#178

Post by shakna »

zaat wrote: post #141
Noumenon72 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that at first, but it is very handy when I take my laptop between normal monitor and vertical monitor.

The problem is not that the feature exist, it's that is set as default with key combos that are the standard way for selecting text, one of the most common use cases of the computer keyboard, afaik.

Ctrl alt for selecting text?

I know of shift and command, emacs and vi don't require you hold down any key. What system uses ctrl+alt?

Re: Make front end shit again

#179

Post by cirgue »

screaminghawk wrote: post #67
tombert wrote: post #25

I agree with the sentiment of this site. I have an nginx proxy set up for personal stuff, and the home page was done in an homage to GeoCities: https://brucewillis.sexy/ Eventually I will get midi music playing correctly with mouse-tails.

The .sexy domains are rich with great simple sites. Like this site of Richard Stallman: http://rms.sexy SFW

This makes me unreasonably happy. This is what the internet is as it's best: people fucking around.

Re: Make front end shit again

#180

Post by wolco »

derefr wrote: post #115
exodust wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you add jquery to a list containing "blink" on a page with CRT monitors and animated GIFs? Let me guess, you have a negative opinion about jquery, that all anyone needs is vue.js

I think the suggestion is that building a page with jQuery is now seemingly as “forgotten” a technique as building a page with plain HTML, despite being both a relatively-recent and still-valid approach to modern design. (Saying that nobody uses plain Javascript to build pages these days wouldn’t be as notable, and so not as funny. jQuery is just standing in for “plain Javascript” here, because it sort of was the onl…

Many I'm in the minority but if I need one small item I'll write pure javascript if I need a little more I'll use jquery, if I need an spa I'll use react or vue if I need an site/app I'll use the ionic or quasar framework.

Use what you need.

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