Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 385 posts

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#171

Post by KozmoNau7 »

frockington wrote: post #161
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, the GDPR stipulates that you cannot deny people access to you service if they do not opt-in to tracking, unless the service you provide is very specifically a tracking service. Tracking is not the primary service Facebook provides to their users, so the GDPR will not allow them to bar access for users who do not opt-in to being tracked.

And how would Europe make an American company offer services to Europeans? Is there a legal pathway to do this or would their court summons be used to level out chairs in FB HQ?

FB is already in a shitstorm of bad PR.

They have a very easy choice actually. Either abide by the rules if they want to service EU citizens, or GTFO. If they want to give up a couple hundred million users and hand them over to the GDPR-compliant competition, that's their choice. It would be monumentally stupid, though. FB needs EU users a lot more than EU users need FB, but they're trying very hard to spin the press to make it appear the other way around.

It's like when McDonalds or a similar tax-dodging company threatens to leave a country if they face being forced to actually pay the taxes they owe. Leave millions and millions in profit right there on the table for their competitors to grab? Yeah right, ain't gonna happen.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#172

Post by dbrgn »

ovao wrote: post #126
icebraining wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your phrasing is confusing. Why would the business want to deny services to a user who chooses to take personal responsibility over the data they provide?

Sorry if it wasn't clear. I'm suggesting that a business should have some right to deny service to a user who chooses not to participate in tracking, so long as it's made abundantly and plainly clear to said user that they'd be tracked, and that the user consents to that. Based on my interpretation, the GDPR simply precludes that possibility.

I assume if you made a business where the user can sell their behavioral data for a service in return, and if the whole goal of the business was selling data in return for a service, then I would interpret the data collection to be strictly required for the business goal and thus legal under the GDPR (given explicit consent).

The official goal of Facebook is not "buying your data" but "providing a social network". Thus, targeted ads are not strictly necessary for providing that service.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#173

Post by icebraining »

briandear wrote: post #138
mrweasel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not allow to operate that way in most other businesses anyway. You can't sell leaded paint, even if clearly marked. You can't sell unsafe cars, even if you tell people that even low speed impacts will kill them. There's a ton of stuff you can't do, even with clear consent, because otherwise people who lack the means to understand the compromises or afford the safer choices will suffer.

False equivalence. Lead paint has the ability to harm others beyond the person making the purchase. Comparing Facebook to lead paint regulations is ridiculous. This is nothing more than a digital drug law: “You can’t choose what services you consume because we are determined to protect you from yourself, like it or not.”

The idea that FB, and personal data tracking in general, doesn't harm third parties is not universally agreed upon.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#174

Post by cortesoft »

icebraining wrote: post #46
ars wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if higher paying ads are necessary for the service to work? Or do you foresee this being like drug prices, where the US subsidizes drug development for the world?

They aren't, though. There are other ways of making money. Like charging people. If people won't pay, well, worst things could befall the Union than Facebook leaving.

Why can't they charge you in data? If they present the deal to users as, "let us track your data, and in return you get to use facebook", is that not a trade that should be allowed? Isn't part of being able to 'be in control' of your data being allowed to sell it yourself?

I think the key point is being clear about the trade. I think FORCING all websites to only be paid for by cash is bad; you should be able to trade your own data for access to a service.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#175

Post by s_dev »

kungtotte wrote: post #112
noja wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking with real knowledge of the facts, or is this a guess? Because my guess would be that it would be cheaper to adhere to the rules rather than let a competitor grow big in Europe and eat their market elsewhere.

With over 500 million people in the EU that's a lot of potential market going to waste by not being GDPR compliant. Unless, of course, their central business model is incompatible with GDPR-compliance in the first place...

In which case there can be no EU competitor.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#176

Post by e12e »

briandear wrote: post #138
mrweasel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not allow to operate that way in most other businesses anyway. You can't sell leaded paint, even if clearly marked. You can't sell unsafe cars, even if you tell people that even low speed impacts will kill them. There's a ton of stuff you can't do, even with clear consent, because otherwise people who lack the means to understand the compromises or afford the safer choices will suffer.

False equivalence. Lead paint has the ability to harm others beyond the person making the purchase. Comparing Facebook to lead paint regulations is ridiculous. This is nothing more than a digital drug law: “You can’t choose what services you consume because we are determined to protect you from yourself, like it or not.”

Maybe a free public toilet that simply demands the right to broadcast a videofeed of its customers is a better analogy? Be they minors or not?

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#177

Post by frockington »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #171
frockington wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how would Europe make an American company offer services to Europeans? Is there a legal pathway to do this or would their court summons be used to level out chairs in FB HQ?

FB is already in a shitstorm of bad PR. They have a very easy choice actually. Either abide by the rules if they want to service EU citizens, or GTFO. If they want to give up a couple hundred million users and hand them over to the GDPR-compliant competition, that's their choice. It would be monumentally stupid, though. FB needs EU users a lot more than EU users need FB, but they're trying very hard to spin the press…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8327185.stm - McDonalds pulled out of Iceland when it became to expensive. I wonder if the EU is going to price itself out of international technology. The affect would be less than ideal for a continent that preaches globalization

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#178

Post by Tehnix »

I'm actually much more interested in what Google collects about me. At least for me, it's somewhat transparent that Facebook tries to slurp up all they can, but it's much less clear with Google, that seems to try to downplay that they are in fact also, heavily reliant on your data.

Does anyone know if Google has made any statements on this?

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#179

Post by zzzcpan »

If websites are going to ask for consent to tracking or deny access to the service only allowing to take the data, delete account and leave, the whole thing will become meaningless. Users will just learn to blindly accept everything, as this is a huge annoyance to them.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#180

Post by AlphaOne1 »

stevew20 wrote: post #93
chesimov wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do mean that a government is less trustworthy than an independendent corporation? That a corporation will better look after the interests of its citizens than a government?

As a US citizen, and a former service member, and I can confirm that most independent businesses and corporations are more trustworthy than the US government.

Personally, I see a lot of similarities between "big" government and "big" business in terms of potential for abuse and massive bureaucracy and neither is particularly trustworthy (they are both composed of individual human beings with motives and desires). The major difference is that the government can abuse its power in the name of the "public good". Plus every business is beholden to the market and will go out of business if it does not provide what the public wants. What I am worried about is that we soon have a situation where the regulators that are intended to protect the consumer from abuse, prevent newer more ethical competitors from gaining market share. This happens a lot in the US where big business and big government form a sort of symbiotic relationship to maintain the status quo
Post reply on HN