How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

Post by jonas21 » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #143

fulafel wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When power gets more expensive in the evenings, a lot of heating/cooling/charging loads may shift in time. Also, hvdc grids let you transmit over a couple of timezones. (And wind does not have the problem the first place, obviously)

If possible, but it may only get worse. If EVs become more prevalent, it will only increase the evening demand as most people will charge when they get home from work. Sure, maybe with timers you can shift that to midnight or something, but it's still happening at a time when Solar adds nothing. You can't just toss out something like HVDC grids as a quick solution. That kind of infrastructure takes decades to build o…

Post by Brakenshire » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

protonfish wrote: post #158

coryfklein wrote: post #133

Selling solar back to the grid has one major problem that, fortunately, doesn't plague windmill installations: The Duck Curve [1]. The problem is that peak energy usage now occurs after sunset . So no matter how many solar panels you stack on your home, around 6-7 PM the coal, oil, and gas power plants all have to spin up to their max capacity. Your solar panels are new less likely to _replace_ a coal power plant, al…

I would think this could be fixed simply by cooling the home lower than optimal at peak solar, plus some thermal storage.

Post by fulafel » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #167

saalweachter wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can add components with high, desirable thermal mass to your heating/cooling system to time-shift that as well. You heat and cool your thermal mass when energy is cheap and then use your thermal mass to heat and cool your house much more efficiently during expensive energy periods.

In most cases adding a swimming-pool sized tank of water to your house complete with a heat-exchange system to save $40 a month on your electric bill isn't going to be very economical, let alone practical.

Post by rnosov » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #171

pkulak wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a surprisingly small battery to shift use a mere 4 hours. This is why we need market rates for power, for everyone. If I have a bunch of panels and my power is worthless at 2pm, that's fine. A small battery system will pay for itself quickly if that power is worth peak at 6pm. Or maybe I set my car to charge in the early afternoon? Maybe when I install my system, I put my panels facing West instead of south?

Can you quote costs here? How much will it cost me to install a battery that lets me come home from work, turn on the air conditioner for 3-4 hours, run 2 loads through my washer and dryer (cause I have 3 kids), do a load of dishes, all while running the water heater, lights, etc? Does a single $4,000 power-wall do that? And if it is merely saving me the cost differential from electricity at noon and electricity at 6…

Post by Reason077 » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:53 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #79

shaqbert wrote: post #2

As the production costs with windpower decrease due to the technological progress, the question of grid storage and grid interconnection becomes more pressing. E.g. in Germany, they frequently have days of negative energy prices, where producers need to pay to feed energy into the greed because of overproduction of energy on windy/sunny days [0](in German). Without storage and grid interconnection, there is only so m…

It is important to note, that here in Germany, wind and solar does not quite reach 100% of our energy consumption yet - I think it has done so only once on a public holiday. The more frequent overproduction comes from high wind/solar output combined with the output of power plants which can't be shout down quickly enough, that is coal/nuclear. If those would be replaced by gas plants with faster reaction times, a muc…