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Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

clickerheroes2.com

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Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#171

Post by greglindahl »

mmihaly wrote: post #114
fragsworth wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey. Developer of Clicker Heroes here. More examples of prior art are very helpful, so that would help us out a lot. Do you have any examples of any of these MUDs that had virtual currency?

Yeah. I'm the friend he mentioned. Achaea.com was the first game in the world to use virtual currency/goods as its business model, back in 1997. Still live today. My company's at ironrealms.com. I mailed you offering help.

Play by mail games have you beat by decades. Which is the usual problem with patent claims (good!) and claiming credit for inventing an idea (endless arguments :-))

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#172

Post by hboon »

Lasher wrote: post #83

I passed this on to a friend of mine who has been doing virtual currency in online games since the mid 1990s (MUDs) and has been called as an expert witness in the past to defeat some of these "virtual currency" patents.

Off-topic, but maybe because of this thread's context, I recognise your name from my time on Aardwolf ~20 years ago. Thank you!

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#173

Post by celdon25 »

brokensegue wrote: post #119
gowld wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for USPTO doesn't help. You'd have to go be the director of the USPTO

More like a legislator or judge

Or a single-issue, grassroots activist that knows how to organize and bring attention to the issue. If you want something bad enough, it's yours.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#174

Post by celdon25 »

chasing wrote: post #73
oldcynic wrote: post #55

Hard to decide how I feel here. I hate software patents and patent trolls, but I also hate what f2p and premium currencies have done to gaming. Which is the lesser of these evils?

The latter -- f2p and premium currencies -- is the lesser of two evils. By a long shot.

I'd make a case for the opposite. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know. Patent trolling is being dealt with, while we are only just beginning to grasp the consequences of F2P games. I have personally spent tens of thousands of dollars on such games.

But frankly, the real loss for me is that the games industry has transformed from a battle of the name brands, to a battle of the addiction engineering. The games aren't even fun anymore, and I don't know whether that is mostly due to the effects on my brain over time, or the games really getting worse.

Patent trolls, on the other hand, affect far fewer people, and are less likely to cause lasting psychological harm.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#175

Post by Viker »

gowld wrote: post #91
josaka wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's about what it costs to draft and file a 12(b)(6) motion to kill the patent at the start of a case for lack of subject matter eligibility under Alice v. CLS Bank.

$35K simply to file a statement that the patent is BS?

Well... That is saying like... 35k simply to design a logo and a website?

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#176

Post by PaulAJ »

jasonlaramburu wrote: post #148
ActsJuvenile wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the rest of the HN community, how do you fight patent trolls like these? How much does it cost ballpark to defend a product?

The following is not legal advice and should not be construed as such. Short answer is that it really depends on your strategy and the rate of your firm. For example, a colleague of mine works at a top tier firm. They were hired to defend a major auto maker against a troll. They took the case to trial, won and then successfully countersued for repayment of fees. The whole thing took a couple years (patent cases move…

This is an effective threat because it means they lose the whole patent, not just the case against you.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#177

Post by PaulAJ »

Kelbit wrote: post #8
jannotti wrote: post #2

Trying to find other companies under the same threat is a great approach. In a similar situation, this allowed my company to fight a patent troll and share costs, so we didn't cave under the, "It'll cost us this much in legal fees anyway" argument.

While it doesn't help in this case (since there is already a looming legal threat from an NPE), you can buy patent troll insurance now: https://www.rpxcorp.com/ . This covers your legal fees in the event of litigation, which can scare off a patent troll who just wants a hit-and-run settlement.

Two problems:

First, you won't be able to get insurance for this case, because it predates your policy. A bit like getting fire insurance when your house is already on fire.

Second, an insurance company won't just write you a blank cheque for legal fees, they will take over the case and look for the cheapest way out, which will probably be settlement.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#178

Post by durkie »

rhcom2 wrote: post #6
jannotti wrote: post #2

Trying to find other companies under the same threat is a great approach. In a similar situation, this allowed my company to fight a patent troll and share costs, so we didn't cave under the, "It'll cost us this much in legal fees anyway" argument.

This is the strategy that helped defeat the patent on podcasting. Also I would contact the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

Agreed! We found a great lawyer through eff for our own patent troll case.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#179

Post by endgame »

mmihaly wrote: post #114
fragsworth wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey. Developer of Clicker Heroes here. More examples of prior art are very helpful, so that would help us out a lot. Do you have any examples of any of these MUDs that had virtual currency?

Yeah. I'm the friend he mentioned. Achaea.com was the first game in the world to use virtual currency/goods as its business model, back in 1997. Still live today. My company's at ironrealms.com. I mailed you offering help.

I've spent so many hours on so many alts on IRE games. I don't know whether to thank you or curse you.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#180

Post by rocqua »

PaulAJ wrote: post #177
Kelbit wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it doesn't help in this case (since there is already a looming legal threat from an NPE), you can buy patent troll insurance now: https://www.rpxcorp.com/ . This covers your legal fees in the event of litigation, which can scare off a patent troll who just wants a hit-and-run settlement.

Two problems: First, you won't be able to get insurance for this case, because it predates your policy. A bit like getting fire insurance when your house is already on fire. Second, an insurance company won't just write you a blank cheque for legal fees, they will take over the case and look for the cheapest way out, which will probably be settlement.

An insurance company dedicated to patent trolls might have a policy of fighting every case in court. If you have the resources to back up this threat, it means patent trolls are much less likely to actually go to court.

Hence, specific insurance against patent trolls could work by effectively taking away the easy targets for patent trolls. It's a bit like home-insurance companies that offer discounts on good locks to keep out thieves. Everyone except for the criminals are better off afterwards.

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