Live data from Hacker News

OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

blog.emacsen.net

171–180 of 290 posts

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#171
post #161

I would love to mirror OSM including all the data, the rendering and the website. Is there a way to do that? I can get the data[0], but is there some guide or container image that includes all the rest that is needed in a working condition? [0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm

There's some guides for setting up tile rendering at https://switch2osm.org/

It doesn't entirely make sense to mirror the editing api, unless you want to fork OSM. And I guess a lot of the user data isn't really readily available.

If your goal is to help the project you might consider running a tile node https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers/Tile_CDN

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#172
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there must be a factor like local data quality: I stopped following Google Maps as closely because it does things like an unprotected left turn on a major arterial road to save 100 feet going to the next light.

I remember trying to use Google Maps in San Francisco at rush hour. In terms of utility, efficiency, and practicality, it was indistinguishable from some bus-riding programmer's idea of a practical joke. No, Google, I am not going to make a left turn here, because I have someplace I need to be by Wednesday.

> No, Google, I am not going to make a left turn here, because I have someplace I need to be by Wednesday.

This made me laugh a whole lot more than it should have. Thank you.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#173
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some, e.g. OSMAnd on Android, they are awfully slow. I wonder why no one has written a proper, fast Opengl renderer for osm

They have. It’s called Mapbox GL, it’s fully open source and there’s a whole open source ecosystem around it.

Are there any sites where you can use it with current data? As far as I know Mapbox only sells it as a service to other companies, they don't have a site where users can browse it. The only site I know that use Mapbox is Strava, and they (or Mapbox) are slow to update the data. I made edits months ago that aren't available yet. Still, the data is much better than Google's for runners and cyclists.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#174
post #22

This post seems half right, half wrong. Wrong that OSM should be a service provider and not a database - I think it should be a database, and corporations are good for OSM. The post calls for OSM to essentially become Mapbox. It's insanely expensive to be Mapbox, and Mapzen just failed trying to be a less corporate version of Mapbox. And then the usage policy part of the article is moot or at least not that consequen…

> The post calls for OSM to essentially become Mapbox The problem is that most companies using OSM are using Mapbox. This leads to a few problems, including attribution, which I decided not to touch on, but is a serious problem that Mapbox doesn't address sufficiently. If they could use OSM directly, they'd be engaged with OSM directly. They'd care about OSM. Right now OSM shoves these users away and makes them into…

I mean, I realize hosting a service is expensive, but can't there be an open source set of service APIs that's self hosted? That way you can chose to get a full copy of the data (and be responsible for pulling updates) and the API, or just pay someone else for access to their hosted version of the API?

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#175
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you complaining that OSM contributors rejected wrong or imprecise location data about your client’s stores? If you are, I would like you to also consider this from the point of view of (maybe volunteer) contributors who prefer less data but correct data in OSM. Maybe draw a parallel with Wikipedia where a page that is not up to the standards might be deleted. (Not a contributor to OSM myself, but I have helped th…

No. I am stating that OSM has no setup for, or desire to, accept useful but incomplete data. And unless they do, they will not have data available that other services have. I know where Google, Bing, Facebook, Yelp, Foursquare, etc get phone numbers and current business hours for our clients. They are straightforward for us to work with, and we are happy to give it to them. OSM is not easy to work with us, so don't g…

alltheplaces is almost what you are looking for.

https://github.com/alltheplaces/alltheplaces

I guess you'd be looking to bypass the hard part.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#176
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you complaining that OSM contributors rejected wrong or imprecise location data about your client’s stores? If you are, I would like you to also consider this from the point of view of (maybe volunteer) contributors who prefer less data but correct data in OSM. Maybe draw a parallel with Wikipedia where a page that is not up to the standards might be deleted. (Not a contributor to OSM myself, but I have helped th…

I think in this case his criticism is merited. There is plenty of open data for street addresses available, and almost certainly already in osm. Instead of linking the most basic form of physical site identification -- which is basically a legal data set maintained by governments -- to their data import functionality/process, they just refuse data. Sounds off to me.

Plenty of governments restrict use of their address data.

Address coverage in OSM in general isn't great. There are regions that are good and then regions where there basically aren't addresses.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#177
post #149
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about OSMAnd for Android? https://osmand.net/

I've found OSMAnd quite buggy and temperamental, plus it heavily pushes you to the paid version if you want up to date maps (so you could effectively ending up paying a third party to access your own mapping work unreliably).

Although I've had similar experiences, have you tried it recently? It seems to be much better. And the F-Droid version is nag-free. I've not found a more flexible mapping program. Unusally for an OSM program, it even supports online tiles - I have mine configured with offline maps overlaid on Bing satellite imagery if data is available.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#178
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The post calls for OSM to essentially become Mapbox The problem is that most companies using OSM are using Mapbox. This leads to a few problems, including attribution, which I decided not to touch on, but is a serious problem that Mapbox doesn't address sufficiently. If they could use OSM directly, they'd be engaged with OSM directly. They'd care about OSM. Right now OSM shoves these users away and makes them into…

> The problem is that most companies using OSM are using Mapbox. Is that even true? And is number of companies even a good metric? Based on revenue/market cap, the bulk of companies use OSM directly. The world's biggest company (Apple) uses OSM directly. Telenav uses it directly. Don't Tesla and Uber use OSM directly too? And we use Mapbox at Gaia GPS, but we also use OSM data directly. > How about letting users expe…

In the post, he says this is ok for some (implying the giants you mention) but it discourages smaller companies. That second (and likely much bigger) set of people use Mapbox.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#179

I'm the DRI for most of these problems. Random thoughts: I think David Ogilvy said something like "Search all the parks in your city, you'll find no statues of committees". Everyone was super keen to make OSM in to a web of committees, and this is one root of the problem from an organizational point of view. It's not super clear to me what the OSMF has done in the last (to pick a number) 5 years. (I don't regard "doi…

> "you'll find no statues of committees"

Well, maybe one or two: http://theenchantedmanor.com//wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Nat...

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#180
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you complaining that OSM contributors rejected wrong or imprecise location data about your client’s stores? If you are, I would like you to also consider this from the point of view of (maybe volunteer) contributors who prefer less data but correct data in OSM. Maybe draw a parallel with Wikipedia where a page that is not up to the standards might be deleted. (Not a contributor to OSM myself, but I have helped th…

No. I am stating that OSM has no setup for, or desire to, accept useful but incomplete data. And unless they do, they will not have data available that other services have. I know where Google, Bing, Facebook, Yelp, Foursquare, etc get phone numbers and current business hours for our clients. They are straightforward for us to work with, and we are happy to give it to them. OSM is not easy to work with us, so don't g…

I don’t want to argue, I understand your position of trying to publish this data and being frustrated by the data being deemed not useful or in scope by other contributors.

I’m not an OSM expert at all — but I can guess that opening hours or phone numbers for a store that has no proper geographical location (and thus no geo-existence) would be perceived as not having its place in geographical database.

I suppose OSM is really a GIS (geographical information system) more than, for example, a tourist map, so it’s not totally absurd that volunteers would have issues with integrating data not properly aligned with the ideal way of working of a GIS (everything is geo-localized).

Google Maps has obviously diverging goals and incentives in that regards (serving ads, being an intermediate to stores).

As Google Maps and other online maps are trying to be many things, including the yellow pages, they probably don’t care about being an ideal GIS.

Open communities of contributors are often misunderstood when they enforce limits to contributions, and at the same time seek more contributors! But it makes sense when your success is defined on building a digital commons—scope and values is really what define the project, not much else. (The Wikipedia community has to explain constantly that the goal is an encyclopedia, for example to people trying to use it for publishing their own findings, personal biography or fan pages. The Linux kernel won’t accept some driver contributions too.)

Of course it now seems that the OSM community of contributors is itself divided on what is the scope of OSM.

Post reply on HN