How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? • Hacker News Board

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#171

Post by SimbaOnSteroids » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

gt_ wrote: post #89

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend this book, which is dated but holds up pretty well. I found it funny, sad, but overall just brutal in its characterizations of class in America. It's only available in print too: https://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-System/... My overall takeaways from the book were: 1. Class is correlated with income, but not identical. 2. Class is so ingrained in so many areas of our lives that it…

And the hack is found in #3. If you’re in the know but out of care, you’ve hacked the system.

I was under the impression that the only important part was that you didn't appear to care.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#172

Post by Hasz » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

staunch wrote: post #3

> In the UK, class consciousness is woven into the national identity. In America, however, people often like to pretend that a class system doesn’t really exist. But, of course, it does. This is the most insidious part. The media in the US has historically been 100% controlled by rich people, and all major media still is. The evil rich people figured out that if you start a gender and race war among the 99%, you can…

"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", anyone?

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#173

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #152

lev99 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind child abuse is hurting a child for selfish reasons and discipline is punishment to cause behavioral changes. Some cultures allow for different severity of punishments. However the intent of the parent is very important when labeling child abuse.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#174

Post by gt_ » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #113

gt_ wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The codes change regularly and different social cliques or professional verticals distinguish themselves by them, so they can be hard to Define. When in doubt: don’t be a tourist. Know how to pronounce the items on the international restaurant menu before trying to order them. If you don’t know, don’t ask out loud. Whisper into your rich friend’s ear so as to not embarrass them. Don’t speak about the unspoken codes e…

I think this level of timidity would make you stand out more.

I did not suggest being timid. The whole thing is a structure of symbols of timidity; an abstraction of wealth begetting confidence. So, it is certainly a matter of walking the ridge between symbolic timidity and actual timidity.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#175

Post by malvosenior » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #67

malvosenior wrote: post #28

As someone who's navigated their way from poor->middle class->upper middle class I can give a bit of perspective that I rarely see mentioned in these articles... One of the biggest barriers to moving up in class is the people in your starter class. Family, friends, neighbors... almost all of them will start to get very aggressive with you if you seriously try to better yourself. I remember being accused of using too…

Question -- how have your mannerisms, speech, attire, body language, etc changed as you moved up in ecocnmic class? I'm wondering how the cues for your social class have changed alongside it.

I'd say that all of the above have become more refined, but I was always different than my peers growing up so they were a bit more refined to start (in large part due to more reading and different media consumption).

My interests are very much middle/upper middle class geek though and that's definitely something that the upper classes aren't very comfortable with. I'm not interested in a lot of the thinking that comes out of high end private liberal arts schools for instance. Really a focus on math/computers/science is generally not an upper class thing. I like media but not "art".

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#176

Post by invalidOrTaken » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:41 PM UTC

dizzystar wrote: post #82

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

Bullshit is highly contextual. Often its valudity is dependent on other factors, which are assumed, usually unknowingly, by the author/speaker.

If your assumptions/situation match those of the author/speaker---it will be good advice. If they don't---bullshit.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#177

Post by malvosenior » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

PoachedSausage wrote: post #159

vostok wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remember being accused of using too many "five dollar words", being a nerd for spending time learning technology, being a loser for reading books! The upper class looks down on nerds, especially technology nerds, just as much as if not more than the lower class does. If we're stereotyping, intellectualism is largely a middle class phenomenon.

Perhaps it is now, but it was not always the case. At the dawn of age of reason you would have certainly needed to be independently wealthy (upper class) in order to pursue purely intellectual activities. For a time, anti-intellectualism was perhaps not as prevalent within the working class. Education was seen as a way to better ones self, people tended allotment gardens and took part in sports and cultural activitie…

What I've seen (and mentioned in another comment) is that the upper classes view "education" to mean private liberal arts school, not math/computers/science. I think those are viewed as too hard to pursue if you don't have to and populated by non-rich people. That's definitely a generalization and not always the case but I've seen it a lot.

I notice a sort of cognitive dissonance with them though. It's undeniable that technology is powerful and many of the richest people in the world got there through tech. I don't think "old money" has quite digested what that means to them and it generally causes discomfort.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#178

Post by rayiner » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

trowawee wrote: post #56

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

Not the author of the parent comment, but my family shifted from solidly middle-class to members of the 1% over the course of a few years in the early 2000s (my teenage years) as our family business became significantly more successful. Here are some of the things I've experienced that strike me as examples of that: - Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone spec…

The clothing stuff works the other way too. My parents were always well off, but we’re immigrants. I know to wear a nice suit to a client meeting. But I’m completely at a loss when it comes to all the intermediate levels of clothing. Like, what do you wear when it would be weird to wear a business suit but improper to wear jeans?

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#179

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:45 PM UTC

dizzystar wrote: post #82

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

>his article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr

This experience isn't exactly uncommon.

Everyone who had a job during college in a state with a single digit minimum wage then got an entry level tech job in a high CoL area did this.

That said, most people who do that don't suddenly find themselves among people who significantly higher up the social ladder when they do that which I think is what you were getting at.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#180

Post by jstarfish » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:46 PM UTC

ggg9990 wrote: post #26

lisper wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The internet will almost certainly spawn a social movement to destroy the class system in the US. Right. I'm sure that the fact that the leading internet companies are run by Harvard (FB) and Stanford (Google) grads will not interfere with the Revolution in any way.

It’s more that the Internet can enable the kind of coordination that a mass movement to revoke power needs.

It can, but it doesn't. If anything it drives divisiveness on a scale we've never seen before.

Before the internet it used to take 10-20 years to foment discord against a particular group. Now we have a new boogeyman every 18 months and it's always other plebes or pariahs-- never the ruling elite.