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LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

linuxboot.org

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Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#171

Post by Annatar »

nickik wrote: post #155
Annatar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the clarification. In the context, most other posts here contain no technical detail whatsoever either and are nothing more than unsubstantiated opinions (same as mine); they just really dislike that there is someone out there who doesn’t think that Linux is phenomenal. In the days of Microsoft dominance, we called that monoculture. Volumes have been written and videos filmed on all the inadequacies of the…

Can you actually link to these resources? Because people have been doing it since the 90s. Google use this on their Chromebook. Some of the people working on Coreboot, Heads, NERF have been doing it for a long time and they all seem to agree with each other. Also, please tell me why the Linux kernel is so bad, but the BSDs are not? They are not that different and its hard to argue that they are much saver in terms of…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6XQUciI-Sc - watch it to the end.

How long "people have been doing it" has nothing to do with the quality, it's a fallacy. They can't code if they can't even get the basics like polling or startup / shutdown correctly.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#172

Post by diegocerdan »

Annatar wrote: post #171
nickik wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you actually link to these resources? Because people have been doing it since the 90s. Google use this on their Chromebook. Some of the people working on Coreboot, Heads, NERF have been doing it for a long time and they all seem to agree with each other. Also, please tell me why the Linux kernel is so bad, but the BSDs are not? They are not that different and its hard to argue that they are much saver in terms of…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6XQUciI-Sc - watch it to the end. How long "people have been doing it" has nothing to do with the quality, it's a fallacy. They can't code if they can't even get the basics like polling or startup / shutdown correctly.

People ask for sources about your harsh claims and you share various multiple hour podcasts that "you have to watch it to the end".

Some people may not be able to code but others are not even able to argue.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#173

Post by hugelgupf »

nickik wrote: post #156
steeve wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably because people saw the LinuxCon video and are excited that it's out. At least that's my case :)

Do you have a link to the talk?

The front page of LinuxBoot has links to talks' videos and slides.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#174

Post by Annatar »

diegocerdan wrote: post #172
Annatar wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6XQUciI-Sc - watch it to the end. How long "people have been doing it" has nothing to do with the quality, it's a fallacy. They can't code if they can't even get the basics like polling or startup / shutdown correctly.

People ask for sources about your harsh claims and you share various multiple hour podcasts that "you have to watch it to the end". Some people may not be able to code but others are not even able to argue.

While both might be true, it does not change the fact that Linux is not a good choice for firmware because the product is simply bad. And asking for links (I did originally write videos and I meant those exact ones) and then complaining about having to watch through them is exactly what’s wrong with our industry. That kind of mentality spills over into code quality or lack thereof. It is high time to start owning up to it and change course.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#175

Post by pferde »

Annatar wrote: post #174
diegocerdan wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People ask for sources about your harsh claims and you share various multiple hour podcasts that "you have to watch it to the end". Some people may not be able to code but others are not even able to argue.

While both might be true, it does not change the fact that Linux is not a good choice for firmware because the product is simply bad. And asking for links (I did originally write videos and I meant those exact ones) and then complaining about having to watch through them is exactly what’s wrong with our industry. That kind of mentality spills over into code quality or lack thereof. It is high time to start owning up…

You also mentioned volumes that have been written. And those would be greatly preferable to podcast or videos, which are some of the worst forms of information sharing, with low density, inability to process it at one's own pace and several other reasons.

Unless you want to discuss something visual where showing things on camera helps greatly with delivering the subject matter, you're much better off writing an article or two. But if the video is mostly about looking at people's faces as they talk and flashy intro animations, then you're just wasting people's time and attention. Again, why not just write an article and include photos of people involved?

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#176

Post by atlas_hugged »

Annatar wrote: post #174
diegocerdan wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People ask for sources about your harsh claims and you share various multiple hour podcasts that "you have to watch it to the end". Some people may not be able to code but others are not even able to argue.

While both might be true, it does not change the fact that Linux is not a good choice for firmware because the product is simply bad. And asking for links (I did originally write videos and I meant those exact ones) and then complaining about having to watch through them is exactly what’s wrong with our industry. That kind of mentality spills over into code quality or lack thereof. It is high time to start owning up…

Have you ever wondered why you’re always so angry? I looked at your comment history and your bio... sheesh man, please seek out a mental health professional. It’s not normal. I’m gonna take a wild guess that you have had lower back pain for years too. Not trying to be a prick, just a wake up.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#177

Post by vectorEQ »

if i look at the diagram it looks like linux replaces a bootloader? or is that a bit too simple of a conclusion?

wouldn't a minimalistic bootloader loading linux then not do about the same? (if you implement coreboot) since that leaves linux to configure everything something like GRUB would usually initialise? I think linux actually re-initialises most things that are done by the loader, and seeing that linux kernel is in the 'memory init' zone, i'd say it's not 'in firmware' and so wouldn't change much??

in my eyes, bios confiugres some stuff like smm etc., then hands over to bootloader (grub or so) which further initialises system ,and hands over to OS. (linux?) So this just seems to skip the bootloader? of which most initialisation is ignored / reinitialised by linux anyway?

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#178

Post by Fnoord »

Annatar wrote: post #169
O_H_E wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously would be interested to learn more about that, can you point me to some resources

Why certainly! This is as good of a place to start as any: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTVfAMRj-7E

A 4h40m interview on YouTube is considered a source these days. How about written text? Makes it much easier to read and quote.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#179

Post by Fnoord »

Annatar wrote: post #137
thudson wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With LinuxBoot you can use any filesystem that Linux supports, not just FAT. You can update boot entries by editing shell scripts, rather than manipulating opaque NVRAM variables. You can run Linux applications straight from the ROM if you want to do that. You can avoid legacy partitions entirely and use LVM for flexible volume management. And... You can build it yourself and verify that the reproducible build matche…

All very good and very valid points. Just wouldn’t want to do that with Linux. OpenBSD or FreeBSD, yes; illumos, yes; Linux - out of the question.

Literally nobody cares that you don't wanna do that with Linux. That's like your problem. The world needs practical solutions; not *NIX wars or zealotry.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#180

Post by Annatar »

atlas_hugged wrote: post #176
Annatar wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While both might be true, it does not change the fact that Linux is not a good choice for firmware because the product is simply bad. And asking for links (I did originally write videos and I meant those exact ones) and then complaining about having to watch through them is exactly what’s wrong with our industry. That kind of mentality spills over into code quality or lack thereof. It is high time to start owning up…

Have you ever wondered why you’re always so angry? I looked at your comment history and your bio... sheesh man, please seek out a mental health professional. It’s not normal. I’m gonna take a wild guess that you have had lower back pain for years too. Not trying to be a prick, just a wake up.

Had you had grown up on something so cool and elegant as a Commodore Amiga or an sgi Origin 3800 and IRIX and now you find yourself stuck on a PC bucket server forced by someone else to run Linux, by knowitalls who’ve never known anything else, you’d be pissed off too. People tend to become resentful when they have to regress to something worse and it was not their choice.
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