Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

papersplease.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 297 posts

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#171

Post by zbentley »

cesarb wrote: post #80
netsharc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the decoy, or as the main OS? I suppose disconnecting the SATA-cable would make the hdd/sdd invisible to the system...

> I suppose disconnecting the SATA-cable would make the hdd/sdd invisible to the system... On a laptop? All laptops I've seen have the hard disk plugged directly into the motherboard, with no cables in between. Having a SATA cable is more of a desktop thing.

I think a minority of laptops have soldered-on HDs. More have them hard-attached now than a few years ago (when almost none did), and many recent laptops have "mSATA" connections, which is more like a RAM connection than a cable. You could achieve the same thing with an mSATA connection as you would with unplugging a cable by removing the mSATA drive/card, and applying a thin strip of something non-conductive over the pins, and plugging it back in. Just please don't use something adhesive; the residue after a few applications/removals can screw up connectivity when you want it to work.

That said, I'd imagine there's an economies-of-scale advantage to having soldered-on drives (to say nothing of the economic benefits of un-upgradability: sorry folks, but there aren't enough people to whom part-swap upgrades are important to sway the hardware industry at large on this issue, though a few small manufacturers/lines will probably target that market). As a result, I'd imagine that we'll see more and more of them in years to come, though I'd be happy to be wrong about that.

'course, I don't recommend bringing your data into a country you consider hostile regardless of whether you've set it up so a cursory search doesn't find it. If the country really is hostile to your interests, that won't stop them if they want your info.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#172

Post by itissid »

I always thought that immigrants always get the sharper end of the stick and I wondered when has immigration ever been easy without these kind of issues. But this is truly appalling. Two things I know to be true:

1. The current gene pool that will rule this country will be no different from the last and it will impose similar measures on the next pool.

2. What's sad about this is the long term damage done to trust and a raft of the rights of people, all for some short term security.

The only thing that can fix this is a return to thinking of consequences on a larger time scale and stop being afraid.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#173

Post by blunte »

3131s wrote: post #49
jimnotgym wrote: post #18

I don't know if it worries my American chums, but I won't visit the USA. As a foreign tourist bringing money into your economy I feel there is a very real risk to my privacy and increasingly my person. I am beginning to favour goods and services from EU where human rights still mean something. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you how the US is perceived overseas, perhaps you don't want my money. Perhaps you don't mind be…

I am an American living outside the US for ~5 years. It's become very difficult to plan for the future now that I am in a permanent relationship with a non-US citizen (we would be married already if not for the various complications associated with being different nationalities). Especially since she is from a so-called "shithole" country, one of the poorest on earth, we have doubts about whether it's even worth ever…

Similar situation here, although I'm in country #2 (if you know the political-comedy reference).

The US has many natural wonders, and it has a lot of quite good people. But the political system is so out of whack that it makes me want to stay away for a very long time.

Furthermore, having to deal with US taxes while living and working abroad is really a hassle. True, one doesn't typically owe any US tax money if paying a higher rate elsewhere, but filing is still required. And filing can be messy if your life is not the standard simple permanent employment situation.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#174

Post by zbentley »

rozenmd wrote: post #113
cesarb wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose disconnecting the SATA-cable would make the hdd/sdd invisible to the system... On a laptop? All laptops I've seen have the hard disk plugged directly into the motherboard, with no cables in between. Having a SATA cable is more of a desktop thing.

On a macbook there's still a SATA ribbon cable between the HDD/SDD and the mainboard

On much older MacBooks that is true. MacBooks since around 2015 have had mSATA "RAM-style" connectors, and I've heard that some more recent models have soldered-on drives, though I haven't seen this myself.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#175

Post by blunte »

lethargic_meat wrote: post #31
nicolas_t wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes have to go to the US for business purposes but from now on will only do so with a wiped computer with just enough installed to look like a normal user's data.

Just have multi-boot and before crossing set the auto-boot timeout at 0, then change it later. If you want to be safe, you can also copy and delete the boot details for your actual partition. I leave a dummy partition with Windows, office and other shortcuts and a wallpaper of a cat during my US visits. I also have both a facebook and a gmail subscribed to all the spam you can get. Not because I have any criminal act…

And while you wait for a judge to decide, you sit in a room at the airport with no toilet, no windows, no communication to the outside world.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#176

Post by alerighi »

And you still call your country a democracy!

If this doesn't change, I will never consider to move or even go on vacation to the USA, I might live in a state that has a lot of problems (Italy), but at least I have the right of privacy, and I can take a plane without having agents searching through my sensitive information on my devices.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#178

Post by zbentley »

alkonaut wrote: post #149
gcb0 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only time I'd even hesitate to trade my precious time for my integrity is if I actually had something to hide I honestly can't tell if you are trolling, I missed the irony, or you are really as dense as a badly trained racist border office (which thankfully is not all of them)

Completely not trolling, nor ironic. Now: I’ll be very clear that I don’t agree with these policies. They are terrible. And obviously if I had anything sensitive I wouldn’t travel with it in the first place! But if I landed in Miami tomorrow for a holiday and someone asked me to unlock my phone so they could look around - would I? Yes! Because I know that not doing it leads to somewhere worse. The point I was trying…

Well put. Consider also the situation of people who are traveling to the US for business, and for whom it is a requirement that they travel there. Not only would being difficult subject them to a potentially-huge short-term monetary loss (lost sales contract, for example), but it might also wreak long-term financial and reputational havoc on them if they lose their job or are blackballed by their company for being someone who "can't travel without getting law enforcement involved".

That, again, is what the people authoring and enforcing these policies count on. The power dynamic is almost entirely against travelers. All the solutions are so radical as to be unfeasible in the short term (remodel international transit authorities; move business out of the US; remodel businesses to not require travel, etc.).

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#179

Post by zbentley »

alkonaut wrote: post #164
_jal wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then, bluntly, you have made your choice. Those unwilling to stand up for themselves can't expect anyone else to stand up for them.

Exactly. I can't afford to stand up for my ideals at the border . I expect people (including myself) to stand up for these things, just not at the border . My main way of disagreeing with policies like this is to simply skip any travel to the US. I can't vote, but I can vote with my wallet. But basically saying that people should either accept that their expensive holiday (or job) might go down the toilet, or they ha…

> people should either accept that their expensive holiday (or job) might go down the toilet, or they have no principles

That is exactly the situation and there is no easy way out. There are solutions, but they are long-term and often unfeasible.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#180

Post by sseveran »

batmenace wrote: post #83
alkonaut wrote: post #69

Unfortunately the recommended behavior is to be "difficult". Trying to somehow state your own rights, demand that officers perform searches in accordance with law etc. - which is "being difficult". If you are on your way to a great holiday, important meeting etc, you aren't going to risk it. Because anyone "being difficult" will be detained or rejected. So I'll just fold and give them my password. And they know this.…

Theres another case, though. Some people have no choice but to be "difficult". Consider, for example, a lawyer from an international firm travelling with company devices, which have on them privileged information that can under no circumstances be disclosed. These kinds of people have no choice but to be "difficult".

When I worked for a large company and had to cross an international border that was considered risky (e.g. China) we were issued a special phone and laptop just for that trip. They were wiped after each use. If one was especially paranoid it doesn't seem unreasonable to destroy the devices after use.

This way we could consent to search because the devices were blank. It's highly inconvenient and I hope the US doesn't turn into a high risk border.

Post reply on HN