James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google • Hacker News Board

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#171

Post by ironjunkie » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

After reading the memo and after reading most of the comments here that claim that users also read the memo makes me very afraid on the state of educated people in America.

I cannot believe that most of you still go with the media narrative that Damore claimed "women are worse than man at engineering" while this is a very obvious misrepresentation of what he wrote in order to fill a narrative.

This is all part of a politically driven agenda that destroys everyone trying to question the unique, politically-correct acceptable way of thinking.

And it kills me that smart people in HN are falling for it so easily.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#172

Post by xyzzyz » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

I agree that he is at significant disadvantage when it comes to getting hired at Microsoft or Apple or other megacorps, but nevertheless, there are still plenty of companies that will hire him. There's more to this industry than just FAGMA megacorps.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#173

Post by moduspol » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #68

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between "fewer women wind up having the skills for X" and "women are worse at X".

Is there really a difference if you believe the reason women "wind up" lacking the skills for X is due to biology? Asserting biology makes it essentialist, it's the same as saying "women are worse at X."

He didn't say he believed that. He said he believed it's possible it's one of several factors, and only at a macro level ("generally, women prefer not to do X", not "women are worse at X.").

He also suggested that if the goal is for Google to become more inclusive toward women, that perhaps the roles should be adjusted to appeal more to women than to stick our heads in the sand and pretend the problem is Google's patriarchy.

If you run a burger place and want more women to eat there, you start serving salads. That doesn't mean you're a sexist for thinking women can't eat burgers. Some do. But generally speaking, women eat salads at higher rates than men. You will not be as successful by trying to market the same burgers to women.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#174

Post by anonemouse145 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #89

keerthiko wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His memo was more along the lines of "women are less represented in tech because the industry does not favor their traits which are possibly a result of biological differences"

And what biological differences would those be?

Read the paper, including citations.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#175

Post by lukev » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

xeeeeeeeeeeenu wrote: post #163

lukev wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Did we read the same memo? One of his central points is that the representation gap between men and women in technology is due to different biological distributions. From the memo: > I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leader…

>Scientists who study this stuff (including those cited by Damore) can and do talk about it, and the consensus is that biological sex differences are not that big of an effect, certainly not enough to explain the gender disparity in tech. What effects there may be are absolutely dominated by sociological factors. [citation needed]

You probably won't like the tone of this article, but I think you'll find it difficult to argue with it's citation list: https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/16/16153740/tech-diversity-p...

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#176

Post by dmode » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

Why would a "white male conservative" sue a corporation when the conservative platform believes that in a free market corporations should be allowed to discriminate as they please ? I have heard Ron Paul (ok, a libertarian) state numerous times how he doesn't support civil rights, because the public will stop visiting those businesses who engage in discriminatory behavior. Shouldn't James Damore just let the free market take care of Google for its allegedly discriminatory position and wait till we all migrate to Duck Duck Go and iOS to teach Google a lesson ?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#177

Post by aceoflxlx » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

vijayr wrote: post #102

presence of Caucasians and males was mocked with ‘boos’ during companywide weekly meetings. What does this even mean? People booed simply because they were white and male? I honestly don't get it. And who did the booing?

Why not? It's happened at GitHub. http://i.imgur.com/7YaVYUx.jpg

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#178

Post by stale2002 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

taytus wrote: post #74

lr4444lr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think the firm is taking an upfront fee or retainer for this? I assume they are expecting a settlement from Google/Alphabet so that the company can put an end to this PR nightmare once and for all, from which they will take a cut.

Google's PR Nightmare? Honest question: Don't you think that the one with the PR nightmare is Damore?

Damore is an individual. He is not a hundred billion dollar company.

A PR nightmare for him costs him very little. There are no products that customers can boycott to get back at him. No offices where he could be protested.

The 'worst' that could happen is that some tech companies refusing to hire him. But given his recent fame, I doubt he has to worry about money anymore.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#179

Post by dopamean » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

thenayr wrote: post #140

john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

Or, you know, he could realize what a monumental fuck up he made and try and make a difference for the better. The dude literally let himself be paraded around by the alt-right and neo-nazi groups as a hero. -----------EDIT below--------------- Zero sympathy for this dirtbag. He's un-hireable because he deserves to be. Future advice for Damore wannabees When alt-right Twitter agrees with your world-views, you're doin…

That was really what did it for me. I read the document and I'll be honest, I didn't really hear the dog whistles and I didn't get particularly worked up about it. I thought it kinda read like pseudo-science and that was about it.

But then the dude appeared on Mike Cernovich's show and was all over r/the_donald and I was like, "oh this is who this guy is." I hate to judge someone by the company they keep but this guy's company was particularly bad (imo).

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#180

Post by jgh » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

I notice none of those options include "admit he was wrong and apologize". I'm sure he doesn't have to work for a top-tier tech company either.