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YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

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Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#171
post #6

I have a feeling that the internet will get outraged about this for one reason or another, but just from looking at this, it actually seems like a sensible policy designed to keep YouTube out of trouble. Nothing extreme or unfair, just avoiding to show ads next to stuff advertisers would not want to see their ads next to, while also making an effort to avoid offending or censoring youtubers. Probably won't be flawles…

I concur, youtube is filled with trash, at least for the youngest audience (2-5 years)

If you let your 2-5 year olds watch Youtube videos, then you're the problem, not Youtube. I really mean that seriously, this is just irresponsible.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#172
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your alternative is the idiot on his last day at Twitter who in his post Trump account blocking interview basically admitted that it was the totality of things that happened that day to him and it being his last day and that Trumps account popped up in front of him which caused him to make the arbitrary decision to block it. Please remove humans from making decisions that need to be uniform. So yes, algorithm it is.

You're implicitly making the assumption that an algorithm is unbiased and less likely to be fallible - and unlikely to be susceptible to bias or manipulation (at least, compared to a human). There is a considerable amount of academic and popular literature showing that these assumptions are false, at least at a technical level. The problem of vetting YouTube videos isn't necessarily something that can be solved by an…

> You're implicitly making the assumption that an algorithm is unbiased and less likely to be fallible - and unlikely to be susceptible to bias or manipulation (at least, compared to a human). There is a considerable amount of academic and popular literature showing that these assumptions are false, at least at a technical level.

No, I'm arguing that algorithms are transparent, which means that they can be adjusted.

> The problem of vetting YouTube videos isn't necessarily something that can be solved by an algorithm, at the end of the day. Lots of the simple cases, sure - but such an algorithm won't work on even the most moderately challenging content.

of course they would here:

while (!decision_pass_the_spot_check()) { tweak_algorithm() }

> deciding whether a video is appropriate or not for monetisation is something that requires an explicit understanding of the social and cultural context which the video is going to be viewed in - which is both highly subjective and difficult to express in an algorithm.

Certain cultures think it is acceptable to stone women. In their societal context it is OK. We do not, however, care that it is OK in their societal context. So we make sure that in our algorithm stoning women ==> demonetized. Now we move onto the next problem. Did someone flag a video that we processed that had women stoned that was not demonetized? We open a ticket with the people responsible for that model, with the video that was not demonetized and have them figure out why it did not happen.

That's how you solve a complex problem. You break them into simpler ones and when you see an issue you address it. Claiming that the problem is just too complex for algorithms is avoidance.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#173
My take on the demonetization controversy is that it is too coarse: the output is a boolean, is it advertiser friendly or not so, to say nothing of the preferences of individual advertisers.

To me it seems that even assuming the current single set of criteria for advertiser friendliness (with all of the other problems discussed in the other comments regarding subjectivity) that different advertisers might or might not be willing to be exposed to it given different prices. Right now there's no escape hatch, so instead we've seen content chilling effects and a ton of new customers for Patreon, something that is starting to exert some degree of competitive pressure on YouTube.

I'm not familiar with the AdSense interface on YouTube, but I'm guessing that it's some sort of keyword bidding model. If advertisers could bid on keywords with with or without the friendliness bit turned on, then market prices could emerge. I can see an incentive on the part of advertisers to be willing to take a bit more "friendliness-risk" if they can get access to a valuable demographic with valuable keywords at a better price.

Hardly a perfect solution (the friendliness bit itself remains the real issue). Even better would be a set of several different friendliness scores that advertisers can make decisions about and thus allow prices to emerge.

edit: spelling.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife runs a "mom vlog" mostly recipes, lifestyle things, how tos, etc. Since late October her content is regularly demonetized with no indications as to what's wrong. Her content is literally some of the most desirable, adfriendly content on YouTube. No idea why they don't have a whitelist for channels with 10 years of a spotless record.

> No idea why they don't have a whitelist for channels with 10 years of a spotless record. Give it 30 seconds of thought, and it'll be blindingly obvious. "Google/Alphabet doesnt have to pay them for the content now." My question, why do they keep using a platform that's screwing them over? Yippee: -3. Evidently stating the emperors new clothes are his birthday suit is bad/wrong.

I think the way you responded caused your downvotes not the point you made. Google is not paying the creators for uploading a video, then you can upload 100 videos a day and get money, the creator gets payed only if ads run on the video but if the video runs ads then Google also gets payed, so me creating a popular video and running ads on it will make Google money. I suspect Google is afraid of detailing why a video was flagged because bad people could adapt and not use those words but other equivalent, but this hits hard on good creators and frustrates them. Why are not creators moving to other providers? Because the consumers are on youtube for now, but I noticed a few youtubers moving on Twitch completly so if a few more youtube alternatives would show up then with the bad karma youtube is getting now google may not be able to reverse the migration to new platforms. Google should admit that their AI is dumb, colaborate with creators in finding a solution, maybe have a reputation system like if this channel has a good reputation and our AI is confused then assume AI is dumb until proven that creator is bad.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is obvious - tag/categorize the videos, according to very strict rules, let the advertisers decide which tags to serve. Allow the publishers to dispute the tags. For instance, "nudity" can be defined as "visible genitals, female nipples" in the US. "Controversial" tag should not even exist, it makes no sense, any non-trivial subject is controversial. And honestly, YouTube can benefit from a more precise…

I think a better solution is to have some core principles that Youtube's censorship team abides by. If the video in question doesn't violate all the principles (or X number of them), then it remains up. Of course that is difficult and actually involves discussions, which Youtube doesn't seem interested in having.

There is zero censorship involved here. This isn't a leak about deciding what gets taken down, its about what is able to be monetized. The leak in fact specifically mentions this choice was used to avoid censorship by removing video.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#176

My take on the demonetization controversy is that it is too coarse: the output is a boolean, is it advertiser friendly or not so, to say nothing of the preferences of individual advertisers. To me it seems that even assuming the current single set of criteria for advertiser friendliness (with all of the other problems discussed in the other comments regarding subjectivity) that different advertisers might or might no…

I think they can create a reputation for a channel, say each time a demonetization decision is reversed by a human then bump the channel reputation and consider this time when deciding to demonetize.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#177
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the algorithm give its judgement before the video goes live?

YouTube's advice to creators is to do exactly this - post the video privately to let the algorithm and potentially the human review go through before making it public. Sadly, since this process can take up to 48 hours, this doesn't work if your videos have any kind of time sensitivity. It also doesn't help with videos of streams, which are automatically posted immediately after the stream's conclusion.

It also doesn't work - uploading a video privately passes monetization, uploading the same video pubically has the video monetized. It's completely arbitrary.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#178

What I don't understand is why don't they allow advertisers to accept showing their ads on these more explicits videos? They were ok with it for a decade but all of sudden they're not? I'm sure most non-American brands would be ok with it, even many American brands would be ok with it. I'm sure Google has the ability to add such a simple feature to their video ad platform (it's basically a checkbox with a boolean tha…

The advertisers themselves saying they don't want their ads shown on this content.

Re: YouTube Demonetization Screenshot Leaks and Secret YouTube Meeting

#179
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strict rules for tagging would just run into the same problems as strict rules for demonetization. LGBT groups won't be any happier to see their content publicly branded "sexually explicit" than just demonetized.

By strict rules I also mean objective and unbiased. Penis/vagina -> nudity (even if it's medical or educational). "Fuck" -> cursing (even if it's about the etymology of the word). Advocating murder of group X -> ban (even if you're quoting a religious text). If these rules are strict and clear, we have a chance of creating a legal-like system. Otherwise it's subjective chaos with everyone pissed off.

So just mentioning genocide is advocating?

Could you give a specific example of what you meant?

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