171–180 of 408 posts
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Python 3 is a similar language with a similar name to Python 2. It shouldn’t be considered an update, nor applied as one.
Yet the Python 3 executable has the same name as the Python 2 executable...
John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.
Absolute shame he doesn't even know the basic definition of 'regression' and uses the word incorrectly in every way.
Breaking shit is simply breaking shit. It's not a regression unless something was broken first, then fixed, then the SAME ISSUE comes back in a later code change.
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Annoying and hurtful, yes, but at the same time, he's not wrong - you fucked up, you did bad and you should feel bad. The upside of this rant too is that the author is not "fired", as such, but told to shape up or gtfo. In a lot of companies, mistakes are accepted, fixed, and forgiven without adding a bit of emotion to it. I think adding this kind of emotion will have a bigger impact and will make the receiving end d…
How? Really? Ask that to a child beaten up by their parents in the street. I am sure that child won't make the same mistake again. I am not interested about if Linus is right or wrong, many other people have done that already. I am more interested the way that he speaks. I am gonna go ahead and say it. The way he speaks in this email is ugly, wrong, and should never be encouraged. The language we use is important, ev…
If that's the way problems get solved, then he's right in using it
If you ask nicely and people don't do it, or keep ignoring it then you up the tone
John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.
> Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean out of curiosity, how does a policy like this translate to microkernel OSes (e.g. Redox) where most everything runs in userspace?
John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.
> John Johansen will survive. We really need to stop excusing Linus's behaviour. Just because we may happen to agree with what he is saying doesn't mean we also have to agree with how he is saying it.
I couldn't agree more.
More than ten years ago I was involved in the Monotone project. It was a VCS which was an ancestor to Git and a contemporary of Mercurial.
That project really prioritised good conduct, and having a well functioning community. It was a huge awakening for me. Insisting, gently, upon respectful and kind behaviour made it a project I'm proud to have been a part of.
I'm still grateful to graydon, pcwalton and all the other folks that made it such a great project to be involved with. In free software we need more leaders like that, who set the right example.
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> John Johansen will survive. We really need to stop excusing Linus's behaviour. Just because we may happen to agree with what he is saying doesn't mean we also have to agree with how he is saying it.
Disagree. It seems like Linus’ acerbic and direct means of communicating is the only thing keeping garbage code out of the kernel. He’s also made his views on “why not be nicer” well known. People need to get over it - his project, his rules. Plenty of other projects out there to hack on if getting yelled at when you disengage your brain is too much. Most of which don’t have the obsession with not breaking stuff for…
Isn't this just swearing?
> the only thing keeping garbage code out of the kernel.
I'm not sure if I'm buying that. It's possible, sure but on the other hand: It's not because the other way (i.e. communicating in a nice way, without all the swearing and direct attacks - which is imo not the same as direct communication) hasn't been tried that somehow proves it won't work. E.g. I know repos where one maintainer is kind yet gets things done, and another one seems to have borrowed his communication style from Linus and gets less done. Because people just give up, being sick of being yelled at in an unpolite manner. Is it that hard to be respectful, even when disagreeing?
I can understand and empathize with both perspectives here. On the margin, is it better to have consistent interfaces, or simpler implementation? This debate reminds me of the worse-is-better design style, which is supposedly at the root of Unix's success. https://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html (copy-paste the link in a new tab. Do not click on it) The worse-is-better philosophy is only slightly different: - Si…
I'm always eager to read Linus's rants. I wish more of my coworkers were like him. I hate the environment where nobody reacts strongly to anything! If somebody fucks up hard and refuses to own up, I (or whoever's in charge) should be able to shout at them. It's only natural.
I have the same problem where I work. If someone messes up it starts a long game of passive aggressiveness. I'd much rather people come right out and tell me I'm causing an issue. In this way I can change course or work on convincing the other party this is what needs to change.
John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.
> Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean out of curiosity, how does a policy like this translate to microkernel OSes (e.g. Redox) where most everything runs in userspace?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> John Johansen will survive. We really need to stop excusing Linus's behaviour. Just because we may happen to agree with what he is saying doesn't mean we also have to agree with how he is saying it.
I agree with how he's saying it. He's being honest. He's letting you know where he stands and what the rule is, without any kind of hidden message or room for interpretation. The other guy? Not being so honest.