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China’s AI Awakening

technologyreview.com

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Re: China’s AI Awakening

#171

Post by averagewall »

dxbydt wrote: post #132
nopinsight wrote: post #19

Key competitive advantages of China are their strength in quantitative skills, a huge population, and the hard working and competitive culture of the populace. An objective measure is PISA results [1]. When comparing with even the best performing US state, Massachusetts, China has many more top performers in Math, as a proportion of population [2]. (In 2015 only four provinces of China participated, but their combine…

pardon my ignorance, but what is the specific correlation of math skills to dominance in AI ? yes, AI/ML/dnn uses substantial amounts of linear algebra, much the way accountancy uses large amounts of arithmetic. but we don’t see mathematicians racing to be accountants. i have specifically written to several math departments in the US asking if they do any sort of AI/ML related graduate research. Even schools that off…

I'm going to get smashed into the ground for saying this, but a lot of psychology research has found that East Asians have a higher average IQ than caucasians. That's known to be a strong predictor of success at math at school and surely has something to do with ML.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#172

Post by oblio »

forapurpose wrote: post #163
oblio wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China was kind of domineering, but on a global historic scale they could be considered somewhat non-violent. They even got invaded twice while being the top economic power of their time. There are quite a few aspects I don't like about China, but warmongers, they are not. If anything, the modern era should be a boon to them, since developed countries are virtually conquerable at a certain scale, via modern technology…

> warmongers, they are not Perhaps they were not, though they were so dominant that they had no security fears and had other levers of power. Contemporary China has militarily threatened or even had conflicts with most of their neighbors, including Japan, The Philippines, Vietnam, India, and Taiwan, and also the U.S. Communist China fought a war with Russia in the mid-20th century, invaded S. Korea (with the N. Korea…

Your comment is hilarious.

I wanted to post a serious reply but your paragraph containing: "had conflicts with [...] Japan [...] fought a war with Russia" is technically true but overall ridiculous.

You do know that Japan invaded them and that the USSR was almost planning the same thing, right?

I can't take your reasoning seriously when it has gaps the size of the Grand Canyon...

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#173

Post by dataronin »

I am a Chinese born AI researcher and I've had most of my higher education in the US. The funny thing is that when I was a high schooler in China, I was not particularly good at math and basically hated anything quantitative. There are two points I want to make to counter some of the arguments people have brought up.

First, even though Chinese high schoolers are "better" at math and there are certainly many gifted kids, it does not necessarily mean that they are better at abstract thinking and will excel at higher levels. On the other hand, some of the most talented people I know did not have super impressive test scores. They are insatiably curious and think from first principles.

Second, if you look at the top researchers today, you'll find their strength comes from combining knowledge from different disciplines, e.g. computer science and neuroscience. The education system in China pretty much hones students in a single dimension, pushing them into a narrow corner. Also, the most important thing in research is not just understanding what has been done. It is thinking critically and challenging authority. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this really goes against the Chinese regime and Chinese culture to a large extent.

I wouldn't be surprised by a large number of future Chinese AI "engineers" who can quickly replicate the latest research. But I think China has a long way to go in order to create an environment that allows students to freely explore and think before a real AI breakthrough.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#174

Post by bluetwo »

fooker wrote: post #165
bluetwo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and I would add to the list recommendation (Amazon/Netflix)... But I'm looking for things where the technology has yet to be applied.

>I would add to the list recommendation You bought a 3000$ DSLR yesterday.. Why not buy a 1000$ one today?

I didn't say it was perfect, but at least when it is wrong, it is funny.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#175

Post by indemnity »

beisner wrote: post #140
indemnity wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a missing piece of the puzzle is: It’s not clear to me that my property rights would be respected, should I be able to buy property in China (which, as a foreigner, I can’t do anyway, the government only leases it to you at best). Western countries have a much better record in this regard.

While you’re technically correct about the government leasing property, in practice buying the rights to land for residential use is in practice effectively the same as buying the land. There are a lot of things like that in China, where the system is nominally socialist, but in practice things are just as capitalistic (if not more so) as they are in western countries.

That’s well and good, but my point remains: There simply isn’t enough long run evidence of predictable outcomes.

I have some confidence of this if I purchase property in a Western jurisdiction, but in China the situation is a bit more fluid. I have zero leverage and have no doubt I would get trampled if convenient.

This is the perception they have to overcome, and to be honest, I don’t think they care to; do they really need or want my capital invested in China, especially in property?

Signals from ruling class appear to indicate otherwise.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#176

Post by evilduck »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #167
evilduck wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Gov also poured an absolutely ridiculous amount of money into the space race, peaking around 4.5% of the federal budget for a couple years.

Which had one of the best ROIs of the things US spent money on. Space access and space-related tech is responsible for so many advances we enjoy today that's hard to even try and list them (some of them you can read about here, though: http://wtfnasa.com ). So you kind of prove my point - that a government can literally mandate progress if they back it up with funding :).

I wasn’t trying to refute you, just pointing out that it was a huge cost.

I’m skeptical that’s our current political climate in the US would be willing to do something like that again unless there becomes an “AI race" (which isn't far fetched, but not guaranteed either).

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#177

Post by dang »

oblio wrote: post #172
forapurpose wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> warmongers, they are not Perhaps they were not, though they were so dominant that they had no security fears and had other levers of power. Contemporary China has militarily threatened or even had conflicts with most of their neighbors, including Japan, The Philippines, Vietnam, India, and Taiwan, and also the U.S. Communist China fought a war with Russia in the mid-20th century, invaded S. Korea (with the N. Korea…

Your comment is hilarious. I wanted to post a serious reply but your paragraph containing: "had conflicts with [...] Japan [...] fought a war with Russia" is technically true but overall ridiculous. You do know that Japan invaded them and that the USSR was almost planning the same thing, right? I can't take your reasoning seriously when it has gaps the size of the Grand Canyon...

Please don't break the HN guidelines like this. If someone is wrong, it's fine to explain how substantively, so we all learn something. It's not fine to call names, which teaches nothing and makes both you and the community look worse.

If you don't want to take the time to write a substantive reply, posting nothing is a fine option as well.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#178

Post by oblio »

dang wrote: post #177
oblio wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is hilarious. I wanted to post a serious reply but your paragraph containing: "had conflicts with [...] Japan [...] fought a war with Russia" is technically true but overall ridiculous. You do know that Japan invaded them and that the USSR was almost planning the same thing, right? I can't take your reasoning seriously when it has gaps the size of the Grand Canyon...

Please don't break the HN guidelines like this. If someone is wrong, it's fine to explain how substantively, so we all learn something. It's not fine to call names, which teaches nothing and makes both you and the community look worse. If you don't want to take the time to write a substantive reply, posting nothing is a fine option as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Next time I'll just go low-effort and paste 2-3 Wikipedia links :p

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#179

Post by djit »

monkmartinez wrote: post #18
shadowmint wrote: post #14

Extremely relevant quote from the talented Mr Ng: > “When the Chinese government announces a plan like this, it has significant implications for the country and the economy,” says Andrew Ng, a prominent AI expert who previously oversaw AI technology and strategy at China’s biggest online search company, Baidu. “It’s a very strong signal to everyone that things will happen.” ie. There is going to be a tonne of money p…

> ...but anyone sitting here scoffing that China can’t make itself a world leader in a field by simply pouring money and support onto the problem needs a serious history lesson. They have before, and there is every indiction they will again, here with this. What are they currently leading?

China is already the first global superpower. To believe otherwise is delusional. China became capitalist several decades ago under the disguise of communism, keeping a tight control over its people, economy and foreign policy.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#180

Post by killjoywashere »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131
killjoywashere wrote: post #114

Pro tip for folks looking to take a job with a Chinese company: this will prevent you from jumping to some jobs in the US. The defense sector will want you to be not employed by the Chinese for at least a year before letting you work on defense-related jobs (yes, they will audit your employer).

Well, if you marry a Chinese, you can also kiss your security clearance goodbye. I don’t think it matters to most of outside the DC/Virginia area.

There's a fair amount of DoD contract work being done all over the country.
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