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I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#171

Passion is a code word for free labor.

I often laugh at people who use passionate not realizing the root of the word more or less means suffering. You want me to suffer for your company? No thanks, thats beyond the bounds of employment imo.

Given the choice between someone who's just doing the job to get paid, vs someone who's doing the job because it's what they enjoy doing, I'll pick the second guy every time.

In both hiring, and working with.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#172
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yeah. That's why, now, I run my own little consultancy. ;)

Thanks for mentioning this. I just finished a desktop app. They wanted to pay X but when the little app was done another colaborating company found out so I made 2.5 * X in total. Now the first company came back and they want another app for 4.5 * X. Is this how it all starts? :)

Pretty much. Making the coefficients go up to the point where you can hire other people is the name of the game.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#173
post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

> Nor am I going to go on some weeks long hiring safari where I hire you for a week or two and see if you can cut it. No time man.

So WHAT weeks long safari do you go on for your company? Product management? Raising fund? Sales?

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#174
post #42
post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

I imagine it varies. I have gotten some good mileage out of my github projects in interviews that have resulted from the HN whoishiring thread; I'm sure if I went in for an interview at some line-of-business software shop here in Houston this would only result in a blank stare.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#175
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had an interview where you shared your side projects, and they were criticized? From my experiences on both sides of the hiring game, side projects aren't really criticized in an interview but are rather used as a starting point for a conversation to explore the ways of thinking of the potential employee. "What was on of the most challenging parts about your project?" is probably one of the most common…

You can have this conversation about the day-job code.

Yes, of course, you can, but my comment was meant to address the concerns of the parent. If you have side projects, you don't have to be afraid that they will criticize and judge you X-Factor style about them.

If the applicant has side projects, it's often easier to talk about them instead of day-job code, since they usually are more passionate about that, and they can talk about it more freely because they don't have to be afraid to (accidentally) spill company secrets. Side projects are not a must and I've had good conversations with applicants about their work projects, though more confidence to talk about them is something that comes with seniority in my experience.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? A lot of people (if not most) treat their non-work GitHub as a place to host random experiments and projects. Unless one plans to publish projects for others to use, no one should be forced to have perfect code for a one off idea if they don't want to. There are a lot of great engineers with empty or "bad" Github profiles.

When I look at a developer's Github profile I know that: 1. They care enough to have a Github profile 2. I can see their actual interests. 3. I know they're interested in random experiments 4. I can see if and how they treat their projects. Are they dedicated maintainers, or do they just fire off one-shot projects without ever deciding to maintain them? And a whole lot more. A person who maintains a single shell scri…

Just out of curiosity, how many hours a week all the people you hired worked for their previous employers and for how long?

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#178
Since there is no standard definition of "engineering" in software, it is mostly driven by individual employers. If a potential employer wants to see you constantly programming in your spare time and have a GitHub account than that's how they view their "engineering" practice. You don't necessarily have to agree. But put yourself in an employer's shoes for a minute. If you, as a candidate, are not a certified engineer who practices what essentially amounts to a form of pseudo-engineering and works in a field where a large number of people don't even have a relevant degree yet claim to be "engineers" how else is one supposed to make a decision about your technical chops?

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#179

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

You know what's universally hard? Finding people who are good at their jobs. References don't matter, experience doesn't matter, education doesn't matter. Why not? Because it doesn't say anything about actual skill. What does? Side projects, where you can actually see if a person has skills. > a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? You hire a corporate lawyer based on their public reputation. For a p…

Except that, side projects are nothing like day to day coding in a company. Beyond basic coding skills, they are very different animals.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#180
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers don't care. The wrong empoyers don't care. The right ones do. My github portfolio is a means for me to determine if a potential employer is suitable for me, not the other way around. It's not a test for me to pass, it's a test for a potential employer to pass. If a recruiter brings up things listed on my LinkedIn page, I know they're not suitable for me. If they bring up things on my github, I'm reasonabl…

You list things on linked in just so you can blame potential employers for looking at it? I dont even have linked in account and still find it ridiculous to hold it against them if they dare to look there.

It's not that they "dare to look there", it's that they _only_ look there and don't care enough to look even a tiny bit further.
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