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Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

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Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#171

Post by gaius »

kamaal wrote: post #169
rtpg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the concensus now was that Welch's leadership under GE was not good. There's been a lot of rants about the utility of stack ranking and this sort of "fire the worst performers because everyone else is better" attitude. Namely wrong incentives. You have John Carmack and a clone of John Carmack working on your game engine. You have stack ranking. Which one should you let go during review season? Should you hi…

That worked at GE largely because they were getting rid of the gold watch retirement crowd. That worked in the past as companies had people who worked there all life, and most of the time late in career they would come to work, do nothing all day and go home. Jack Welch was simply doing long pending layoffs.

That worked at GE largely because they were getting rid of the gold watch retirement crowd

You mean, getting rid of people who had been promised deferred compensation, before having to make good on it? That was the deal with old-skool companies, remain loyal for 30 years then ease your way into retirement. GE got the loyalty then shafted those guys.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#172

Post by kamaal »

gaius wrote: post #171
kamaal wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That worked at GE largely because they were getting rid of the gold watch retirement crowd. That worked in the past as companies had people who worked there all life, and most of the time late in career they would come to work, do nothing all day and go home. Jack Welch was simply doing long pending layoffs.

That worked at GE largely because they were getting rid of the gold watch retirement crowd You mean, getting rid of people who had been promised deferred compensation, before having to make good on it? That was the deal with old-skool companies, remain loyal for 30 years then ease your way into retirement. GE got the loyalty then shafted those guys.

The economic set ups across the world changed. You can't fault companies for doing what was needed.

In India many old people got shafted both the ways being asked to take voluntary retirements and being subjected to high inflation rates at the same time.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#173

Post by xvikram »

While I do commend Musk's role in getting change within industries, it can't be argued that his biggest strength over the last decade has been only PR (and I mean only!). Do some digging and see how he chooses to release news bits, diversions etc and holds on to the mastermind billionaire ideal that people bestowed upon him. Any other company making false promises ("Auto"pilot), providing factually incorrect data (Model 3 "mass" production), mass firings ("performance" layoffs) would not survive in the world. Musk just dumbs down science to his cult and they swallow it up. Remind you of anyone else? (hmmmm... Trump - different audience of course but similar cult following characteristics).

Tesla responding to lawsuits by former employees claiming they suffered racial discrimination and anti-LGBT threats (in The Guardian): “There is no company on earth with a better track record than Tesla.”

Trump, March 2016: "Nobody knows more about trade than me."

Don't think any other person/entity give out such absolute statements routinely.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#174

Post by gaius »

kamaal wrote: post #172
gaius wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That worked at GE largely because they were getting rid of the gold watch retirement crowd You mean, getting rid of people who had been promised deferred compensation, before having to make good on it? That was the deal with old-skool companies, remain loyal for 30 years then ease your way into retirement. GE got the loyalty then shafted those guys.

The economic set ups across the world changed. You can't fault companies for doing what was needed. In India many old people got shafted both the ways being asked to take voluntary retirements and being subjected to high inflation rates at the same time.

You can't fault companies for doing what was needed.

Well, you can, or no obligation means anything anymore. Why should a company even pay you your wages if things are a little tight this month, by that logic?

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#175

Post by eighthnate »

20years wrote: post #18

This doesn't really surprise me. A few years ago we had lead generation software that catered to the solar industry. We had some decent sized clients and it did really well for about 2 years. Once the tax credits started going away and the power companies started killing off their rebates, a lot of these solar companies were not able to survive. One of our larger clients who was heavily funded went bankrupt this year…

> It is risky basing too much of a business on tax credits and rebates.

This is/was an open secret not only in the solar industry but the entire renewable/clean energy industry ( wind, geo, etc ). These solar companies existed solely because of government support and everyone knew that once the government support was pulled, these companies would immediately be bankrupt.

The first solar companies to fall were those based in germany/uk/spain when european governments pulled the solar subsidies. Followed by the solar companies in the US. Even the chinese solar companies are struggling now.

But the biggest problem going forward for the solar/wind/etc industry is low oil/gas prices. But even with the most optimistic projections, solar would be a relatively small portion of global energy source even by 2050.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#176

Post by chrisbennet »

jdavis703 wrote: post #165
chrisbennet wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So , the company tries to extract free labor but the person who doesn’t let them get away with it is the person you blame???

I don't see how it's free labor. I'm not sure if you're European or American, but in the U.S. most professional jobs don't have set hours, it's more you work until the task is satisfactorly completed within defined time constraints.

I'm American but I have luxury of working as a consultant - I get paid for every hour. I've worked for lots of companies and without exception, I've really like working for the company and when there was an occasional push, worked some extra hours. That said, I'd take some comp time later.

"in the U.S. most professional jobs don't have set hours, it's more you work until the task is satisfactorly completed within defined time constraints."

Then the company won't mind if I leave early when I have my work done right? Oh, you mean this relationship with the company is only supposed to go one way - to the company's benefit?

[Twirling my mustache] Wouldn't it be great if we could convince an employee (that we are exploiting) that the reason he has to work late is because another employee didn't donate labor to the company (and not that the deadlines are unrealistic)?

I think employers and employees sometimes forget that this is a value for value, business relationship. Think of what's implied in the common phrase "I gave him a job." An employer doesn't "give" someone a paycheck anymore than an employee gives the employer his labor - it a value for value trade.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#177

Post by [deleted] »

gaius wrote: post #174
kamaal wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economic set ups across the world changed. You can't fault companies for doing what was needed. In India many old people got shafted both the ways being asked to take voluntary retirements and being subjected to high inflation rates at the same time.

You can't fault companies for doing what was needed. Well, you can, or no obligation means anything anymore. Why should a company even pay you your wages if things are a little tight this month, by that logic?

[deleted]

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#178

Post by bshacklett »

jdavis703 wrote: post #154
Posibyte wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other ones were just lazy, working only 9-5 I completely understand the latter issue about taking off randomly for wild reasons, but why is working agreed-upon hours a bad thing?

If you're an exempt employee (you're exempt if you're not an hourly employee or making over ~$23,000 USD in the USA), means that you're not qualified for overtime. When other team members are putting in over time, but a few people aren't they're effectively freeloading on the people putting in more effort.

No, the company is the freeloader in this case. I don't know where you get this whole idea of no set hours. Salaries are based on the expectation of 40 hours a week. If a company is asking for more than that on a regular basis, that company has some significant issues that need to be addressed. Workers who are not willing to be taken advantage of should not have to suffer consequences for their employers mismanagement.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#179

Post by lawnchair_larry »

jdavis703 wrote: post #159
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and that is a hilarious assertion. You are the fool for setting a precedent of free labor in that case. Most figure this out pretty quickly.

When did ad-hominem attacks become accepted on Hacker News? I might look back a decade from now and realize that all those 12 to 14-hour days were wasted time that I could've been using to live "the good life," but I'm not sure that makes me, or anyone else who puts in long hours for a sustained period of time, a fool.

I hope for your sake that it does not take a decade :)

It's foolish, I don't know what to tell you. I don't consider that an ad hominem attack. Certainly not more of one than you calling people who put in standard work hours "freeloaders".

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#180

Post by Ryudas »

rgbrenner wrote: post #136
Ryudas wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me just state that Elon musk has , in fact mentioned going zero on subsidies before the 200k , namely, qhen bob lutz was critizizing the subsidies and loans tesla got, he offered a competition where everybod would go to zero subsidies.

You mean the comments Lutz made in Oct 2016? There were 325k model 3 preorders in April 2016. Tesla has been in business since 2003. Show me a comment from 10 years ago of musk complaining about subsidies.

You know , you're right! I had my timelines mixed. I do still think that elon musk's companies get singled out quite strongly when they take advantage of the subsidies that a lot of these companies take part in, to much higher degree. I guess his companies bear so much vitriolitic commentary, it's hard to distinguish actual valid criticism from the other things.
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