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The war to sell you a mattress

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Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#171

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #138
mwexler wrote: post #82

The business models for pricing aggregators and reviews sites are completely absent. Even Consumer Reports struggles to meet the costs of testing and staffing. The BBB is a mess. The "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" hasn't meant anything for decades. It's a sad state of affairs: We all want unbiased reviews, but we won't pay for them. We all want to know the spread of prices so we can balance service/trust with c…

The problem goes deep. I recently decided to get a Consumer Reports subscription after not having one for 10 years. I used it to find the absolute BEST dishwasher. But because their rating system is a little strange, and they don't exactly tell you BUY THIS, DONT BUY THAT, I ended up with a Dishwasher I hate. It was the most expensive, and best according to CR, but I cannot express how miserable this piece of junk ma…

A dozen years ago, I had a house built, and I bought all the appliances myself. I thought I would research the market, find the sweet spot, and get a good deal through a specialty appliance store because I was getting everything at once. Boy, was I wrong.

I subscribed to Consumer Reports online, and came up with what I thought was the right brand: GE "Gold". I bought everything in the line: stove, microwave, dishwasher, refrigerator, washer, and dryer. Within 5 years, the washer and dryer had both been replaced, almost all the plastic accessories on the fridge had broken, the stove's convection fan failed, and one of the rails on the storage pan fell off, several screws fell out of the dishwasher before I ever started noticing, and the silverware tray broke, and I couldn't keep microwave lights working.

What I finally figured out was that ALL of the stuff CR is reviewing is made by a few companies, and it's ALL crap. They make it seem like you can buy something "good" by paying twice as much, but even if CR is truly impartial, there's no material difference. I got more years of service out of the second-hand, refurbished, mismatched washer and dryer that I bought from the ratty converted house/shop on 3rd street than I got out of the "higher" end models, and paid 1/4 of the price.

And I'll tell you something else for free: it was damn refreshing to hear the guy who FIXES UP appliances for a living tell me he wouldn't even take my old units off my hands to refurbish -- for free -- because they really were total junk. Talk about salt on the wound! Find a local guy who does this and ask HIM what you should buy; not Consumer Frickin' Reports.

Before I was born, my parents went to Sears, and bought a "good" Kenmore washer and dryer. They lasted almost 30 years, till they couldn't get some replacement part for the dryer. I've concluded that the only way to get this level of quality is to buy "commercial" kit, and pay TEN times as much.

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#172

Post by pbhjpbhj »

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #128
IgorPartola wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd. The arguments all make sense, but the prices I am seeing are nowhere near the quoted ones. Have the prices on moissanite jewelry been jacked up since this site was created or something?

There's a wide range of prices. More often than not, you'll end up buying one that is custom made in an American lab, so it might not be exactly cheap, though it is cheaper than an equivalent diamond. We bought moissanite because I absolutely refuse to support the diamond industry in any way. For what its worth, friends of our who are obsessed with image can't tell the difference.

Is the sting in the tale (sic) that DeBeers (or its major shareholders) owns the moissanite company/production/patents and created the competition to secure both sides of the market?

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#173

Post by floater123 »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #129
mi100hael wrote: post #107

I've found Ikea to be a great place to buy a mattress. No shady sales tactics or aggressive salesmen, several models you can physically try out in the store, and good quality/value.

I went in there a couple of years ago, and bought a full-sized Sultan Havberg after trying a few out (it looks like they don't sell this anymore, but you can find it in their product catalog - http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/pdf/buying_guides_fy15/Mattress... ) At the time it felt fine, but when it arrived I found it nearly impossible to sleep on. I could feel the springs pressing into me as I inevitably rolled around o…

I bought my mattress about 20 years ago (probably new forms of life evolving in it by now), one of those memory foam overlays gave it a new lease on life for about AU$200. Very comfortable. That and a down pillow and I'm hard pressed to leave bed at times.

Essentially just looks like some plastic foam, whether it's worth that price I couldn't say.

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#174

Post by pbhjpbhj »

msla wrote: post #141
Retric wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Owners of non conflict diamonds have an incentive to demonstrate otherwise. However, the massive diamond glut means DeBeers has an incentive to buy up conflict diamond using proceeds from regular diamond sales. Which arguably makes all natural diamonds blood diamonds more directly.

> Owners of non conflict diamonds have an incentive to demonstrate otherwise. Right, but because diamonds can't be tracked, they're indistinguishable from the good liars who want to pass off blood diamonds as good ones. > However, the massive diamond glut means DeBeers has an incentive to buy up conflict diamond using proceeds from regular diamond sales. Which arguably makes all natural diamonds blood diamonds more d…

>diamonds can't be tracked //

That's a little surprising to me, don't minerals usually have characteristic chemical fingerprints that allow them to be located once the "fingerprint" has been established?

Doing a quick search now, eg https://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i18/Fingerprinting-Conflict-..., suggests I'm right in this assumption?

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#175

Post by pbhjpbhj »

astura wrote: post #130
hutzlibu wrote: post #36

Now this made me thinking of other online review sites. Are they all like that? I couldn't give an honest review, if I get more money from B than A. So if they state otherwise, I call it fraud And I know that's what people call marketing in general and there might be some truth in it - but that's why you go to these review site to get a neutral view. So normally the customer should pay the reviewer, he is doing work…

Yes. Review sites, in general, are mostly cash cows and 99% of them should be avoided. There's no incentive to give honest and unbiased reviews.

Morality? Wanting better stuff, that is actually designed to work well? Environmentalism? Altruism?

Surely not everyone is only driven by greed?

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#176

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #100
greedo wrote: post #86

Many podcasters are in the same boat, though they try to mask it. I only listen to probably 3 podcasts, but I hear the same sponsor reads on a daily basis. Casper, Fracture, Betterment, Warby-Parker, etc. The reads given by these sponsors are only guidelines, the better podcasters personalize them to make them sound like real endorsements not just ad reads.

Sadly some people can’t tell the difference between a sponsored read and an endorsement precisely because they make it sound like an endorsement.

That's against the law in Europe, sponsored content and ads have to be clearly identified.

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#177

Post by hugecynic »

sliverstorm wrote: post #165
hugecynic wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not joking: i bought 2, and use one as the 'box spring'. it's pretty amazing sleeping on 24" of queen memory foam for less than half the cost of a single shitty mattress 10 years ago.

I believe the point of the box spring is: 1) Providing rigidity for use on a sparse frame 2) Providing airflow so the underside of the mattress does not stay damp (from sweat etc) Don't know how much of an issue this still is, but as far as I know it's not just a spacer.

uh, it's not a box spring. it's another mattress. do you know what 'quotes' do?

and, memory foam mattresses come with moisture/stain guards.

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#178

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

skewart wrote: post #145
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem goes deep. I recently decided to get a Consumer Reports subscription after not having one for 10 years. I used it to find the absolute BEST dishwasher. But because their rating system is a little strange, and they don't exactly tell you BUY THIS, DONT BUY THAT, I ended up with a Dishwasher I hate. It was the most expensive, and best according to CR, but I cannot express how miserable this piece of junk ma…

> they don't exactly tell you BUY THIS, DONT BUY THAT > but for what I care about it sucks, its hard to use, and it doesn't dry dishes AT ALL. I'm confused, it sounds like you wish CR had just told you which dishwasher to buy without going into more detail, but you also wish they had gone into more detail about specific strengths and weaknesses so you could make a decision based on what's most important to you. Did C…

I did contradict myself there. What I was trying to say is that a highest customer satisfaction rating probably would have been better than all the information they gave. But barring that, random Amazon reviews which were free, provided me information more aligned with my experience.

What they talk about is how the dishwasher did, when put through their special "testing program". So apparently this top of the line dishwasher will perform a great number of cycles before breaking. Consumer Reports isn't wrong. The engine is great. They also measured the decibels, so they could say this is "the most quiet" dishwasher.

The information I could have received from Amazon reviews, was that it is hard to adjust the upper rack, meaning you can't easily wash a baking pan. And even on the most extreme drying setting you will still need to dry your dishes by hand.

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#179

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #96
mrfusion wrote: post #89

How do you make the switch to foam mattresses? They just feel so strange and different compared to regular mattresses?

Foam actually lacks the support of a traditional mattress. If you do end up making a switch, take a look at your typical sleeping position. Medium firm is good for side sleepers and firmest you can find is better for your back but honestly inner spring is best for your back.

I've suffered with backpain for almost a decade, a new foam mattress (Ikea) replacing a spring mattress seems to have helped a lot. It's a supportive foam with a memory foam top; firmer than the sprung mattress.

The only downside is, err, it doesn't bounce when you want to bounce, if y' catch my drift.

It feels quite different, definitely warmer (not a problem in UK), took a few days to get used to.

Re: The war to sell you a mattress

#180

Post by msla »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #174
msla wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Owners of non conflict diamonds have an incentive to demonstrate otherwise. Right, but because diamonds can't be tracked, they're indistinguishable from the good liars who want to pass off blood diamonds as good ones. > However, the massive diamond glut means DeBeers has an incentive to buy up conflict diamond using proceeds from regular diamond sales. Which arguably makes all natural diamonds blood diamonds more d…

>diamonds can't be tracked // That's a little surprising to me, don't minerals usually have characteristic chemical fingerprints that allow them to be located once the "fingerprint" has been established? Doing a quick search now, eg https://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i18/Fingerprinting-Conflict-... , suggests I'm right in this assumption?

That's a proposal, one, and, two, it doesn't mention anything about diamonds being tracked that way, only other ores. An important thing to do, but not entirely relevant to the discussion at hand.

My knowledge comes from my knowledge of what people have said about Brilliant Earth, which charges a premium based on the notion that its diamonds come from Canada.

https://iwantwhatitsworth.com/blog/brilliant-earth-diamond-s...

> Small problem: Everyone who’s worked in the diamond industry—for more than a week—knows tracking diamonds all the way to the mine is flat out impossible.

The only other info I can find says that diamonds could theoretically be tracked, but not in any way which implies they'd be tracked chemically, just that they could be tracked through a supply chain, in a way ultimately dependent on the goodwill and honesty of the diamond industry

https://www.jckonline.com/editorial-article/brilliant-earth-...

> Second, the video is incorrect when it states baldly, “Diamonds can’t be tracked.” It is true, there is nothing gemologically in a diamond that offers any proof of origin, as there sometimes is with colored stones. But there is no reason that diamonds can’t be tracked. Bananas are tracked. Coffee is tracked.

> If a manufacturer buys directly from a specific mine, establishing a diamond’s origin should be relatively easy. All it has to do is segregate those specific goods and then make its systems open to audit. For an extra 2 to 3 percent, I can’t imagine many manufacturers would have much problem doing that. (There are probably some manufacturers that would eat the diamonds if it meant an extra 2 to 3 percent. But that’s another story.)

> So just because diamonds haven’t been tracked traditionally doesn’t mean that is not possible—or that companies aren’t currently doing it. In addition to Brilliant Earth, the Forevermark, Canadamark, and Rio Tinto’s new Canadian and Australian diamond programs all make provenance claims.

I think I've made my case as to why I doubt this would be sufficient.

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