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There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

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Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but on the quadrants of predictions of timing vs imminence, all the examples are in one quadrant to justify the need to act now. Fair enough for reinforcing a narrative but a tad disingenuous.

All possible examples would seem to be in one quadrant, because what we remember -- if anything -- is the time just before it in fact was made possible. The alternative would be technologies that were never developed at all, most of which never had this sort of discussion and therefore wouldn't work as examples. Take a more historical view, though, and you'll notice there were people claiming flight was near even dec…

Right, exactly as Eliezer says. There are plenty of examples in all four quadrants, so as a way of working out how near a technology is, this works less well than you'd like.

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#172

AGI is not coming, DL methods have run into a plateau recently for the past year.

That's interesting, but could you elaborate in more detail?

The usual style DL paper that focus on tweaking network architecture is running into a dead end. The improvement is becoming ever more marginal but the cost is skyrocketing. Sadly, bigger and deeper neural networks are previously what major drive force to advance DL research.

Meanwhile people turn into RL to approximate non differentiable function, so far it doesn't seem to apply to real world tasks. Give or take 2 to 3 years, if there isn't some major breakthrough, like human level star craft agent, we can then offically announce that this round of DL revolution or renaissance is over.

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#173
post #142

Can someone please explain what has happened in ML or AI that makes AGI closer? Whilst some practical results (image processing) have been impressive, the underlying conceptual frameworks have not really changed for 20 or 30 years. We're mostly seeing quantitive improvements (size of data, GPGPU), not qualitative insights. ML in general is just applied statistics. That's not going to get you to AGI. Deep Learning is…

I think the most accurate answer is that we just don't know. Since we really don't know how an AGI could work, we have no idea which of the advances we've made are getting us closer, if at all. Is it just an issue of faster GPUs? Is the work done on deep learning advancing us? I don't think we'll know until we actually reach AGI, and can see in hindsight what was important, and what was a dead end. I do take exceptio…

It's funny that you mention Relu. People have recently trained Imagenet networks using sigmoid/tanh (e.g. the activations that were used decades ago) on GPUs and they train just fine. They train a bit slower is all. Not the breakthrough you're making it out to be. Relus were a very useful stop-gap in 2012 when GPUs weren't as fast.

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#174
post #151

Can someone please explain what has happened in ML or AI that makes AGI closer? Whilst some practical results (image processing) have been impressive, the underlying conceptual frameworks have not really changed for 20 or 30 years. We're mostly seeing quantitive improvements (size of data, GPGPU), not qualitative insights. ML in general is just applied statistics. That's not going to get you to AGI. Deep Learning is…

While part of me agrees with your analysis, I'd like to point out what I think could make this wave of ML/AI more serious. You are absolutely correct that deep learning is not very biologically accurate and that what today's models do seems a long way from AGI. However, in my opinion, the most fundamental aspect of intelligence is the ability to form useful abstract ideas to model reality. To make that more concrete,…

Your example actually runs counter to the idea that we're seeing a massive breakthrough. Deep nets on MNIST for recognizing numbers were done 20 years ago.

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#175

Humans evolved from immaterial matter to conscious carriers of information. The real question isn't whether AGI is possible but whether humans are the fittest carrier of information for our DNA and that seems to be technology in some shape or form helped by things like deep learning. My bet is always on evolution. And now that technology can learn it's IMO only a matter of time before we will experience another Cambr…

>Humans evolved from immaterial matter to conscious carriers of information.

You know this how? Where is the science behind it?

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#176

I worry talking about AGI is like going to the early industrial revolution and worrying about man building superhuman biology. A reasonable critic would point at the many aspects of biology we have little hope of replicating, like growth, self reparation, and general robustness. But history has never been about competing on the same playing field. We don't build cars that perform like poor horses, we build cars that…

I think there are two questions here: (1) "Is general intelligence even a thing you can invent? Like, is there a single set of faculties underlying humans' ability to build software, design buildings that don't fall down, notice high-level analogies across domains, come up with new models of physics, etc.?" (2) "If so, then does inventing general intelligence make it easy (unavoidable?) that your system will have all…

Those aren't exactly the questions I'm raising; I have no doubt that there exists some way to produce AGI. My concern is that it doesn't seem like the right question to ask, since history suggests that humans are much better at first building specialized devices, and when it comes to AI risk the only one that really matters is the first one built.

I might have misunderstood your post, though.

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#177
Here's wot I think.

I think there's noone alive today who has any idea how we are going to go from where we are today, to AGI.

Recent advances are remarkable- but much more so if you're a specialist. The impact on most peoples' lives is much smaller (and it comes primarily from dumb automation, rather than actual intelligence).

Machine learning is not enough to get to AGI: relying on huge amounts of data and processing power is just not a sustainable way to keep increasing your capabilities.

All the success stories of the last 10 years are at least 20 years old (case in point: RNNs). Most of those successful techniques were found by sheer blind luck (famous example: backprop was not invented in the ANN community; it took twenty years for the idea to percolate all the way to them).

In the end nobody currently alive has a clue how we can get to AGI, or if that is even possible. Chances are, it will take many, many generations until we do- or a sudden, gigantic paradigm shift, of the kind that comes once every couple of centuries- think Newton or Einstein. Except AI is not physics. In statistical machine learning there is very little theory to guide the way, so people just try things hoping that something will work. And that's no way to make a quantum leap.

In this situation, to talk of the dangers of AGI is at least premature. Yes, it's not completely impossible that AGI will happen in our lifetimes. The same, however, can be said of an alien invasion. Should we start discussing setting up planetary defenses, when we haven't even found sign of alien life, yet?

By all means- let's have a conversation. There are people around whose job it is to have that sort of conversation. But let's all be aware (and let those people also be aware) that the conversation is most probably a couple hundred years early and by the time it becomes truly relevant, things will have advanced so much that it will just look pointless.

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't be a single machine. It will be multiple systems. And it's not that far away. Probably only 15 years. And it will be a great boon. Quality of meals will go up and costs will go down. The restaurant market will shrink but not completely disappear. But McDonald's will certainly die, as there'll be no need to sacrifice quality and nutrition to get speed and convenience. In fact, a table at McDonald's will be an…

McDonalds is that machine. All you need is to make the trucks that distribute the ingredients self driving and you have it.

It's not the machine I was describing. It's not a machine but a group of people. And it's certainly not elevating quality or nutrition. It doesn't produce food I'd want to serve to my nieces on a regular basis or that I'd want them know about.

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two questions here: (1) "Is general intelligence even a thing you can invent? Like, is there a single set of faculties underlying humans' ability to build software, design buildings that don't fall down, notice high-level analogies across domains, come up with new models of physics, etc.?" (2) "If so, then does inventing general intelligence make it easy (unavoidable?) that your system will have all…

Those aren't exactly the questions I'm raising; I have no doubt that there exists some way to produce AGI. My concern is that it doesn't seem like the right question to ask, since history suggests that humans are much better at first building specialized devices, and when it comes to AI risk the only one that really matters is the first one built. I might have misunderstood your post, though.

The thing I'm pointing to is that there are certain (relatively) specialized tasks like 'par-human biotech innovation' that require more or less the same kind of thinking that you'd need for arbitrary tasks in the physical world.

You may need exposure to different training data in order to go from mastering chemistry to mastering physics, but you don't need a fundamentally different brain design or approach to reasoning, any more than you need fundamentally different kinds of airplane to fly over one land mass versus another, or fundamentally different kinds of scissors to cut some kinds of hair versus other kinds. There's just a limit to how much specialization the world actually requires. And, e.g., natural selection tried to build humans to solve a much narrower range of tasks than we ended up being good at; so it appears that whatever generality humans possess over and above what we were selected for, must be an example of "the physical world just doesn't require that much specialized hardware/software in order for you to perform pretty well".

If all of that's true, then the first par-human biotech-innovating AI may initially lack competencies in other sciences, but it will probably be doing the right kind of thinking to acquire those competencies given relevant data. A lot of the safety risks surrounding 'AI that can do scientific innovation' come from the fact that:

- the reasoning techniques required are likely to work well in a lot of different domains; and

- we don't know how to limit the topics AI systems "want" to think about (as opposed to limiting what it can think about) even in principle.

E.g., if you can just build a system that's as good as a human at chemistry, but doesn't have the capacity to think about any other topics, and doesn't have the desire or capacity to develop new capacities, then that might be pretty safe if you exercise ordinary levels of caution. But in fact (for reasons I haven't really gone into here directly) I think that par-human chemistry reasoning by default is likely to come with some other capacities, like competence at software engineering and various forms of abstract reasoning (mathematics, long-term planning and strategy, game theory, etc.).

This constellation of competencies is the main thing I'm worried about re AI, particularly if developers don't have a good grasp on when and how their systems possess those competencies.

Re: There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence

#180
post #111

Great read, and I don’t mind at all that the last section was a pitch for donating to MIRI. I have been an AI practitioner since 1982 and have enjoyed almost constant exposure to people with more education and talent than myself so I feel like I have been on a 35 year continual learning process. I think that deep learning is overhyped, even though using Keras and TensorFlow is how I spend much of time everyday at wor…

Got any suggestions for a knowledge source of AI at a 100-1000 foot view? Ie not stuck in the weeds, but enough to know what’s going on nd where.

If you can spend 5 or 6 hours a week, take Andrew Ng’s machine learning class on Coursera.
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